YBIOTL Episode 10 Publish
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Dallas: [00:00:00] This is a presentation of Indian dad media in association with,
Philippe: this is a Thursday media production.
Shubh: Hello everyone. That was a long pause. That was too long. Uh, episode 10.
Philippe: Episode 10, and I'm still here. Episode code, co-hosting
Shubh: Episode X.
Philippe: Uh, yeah.
Shubh: The force is also here still. Episode 10,
Philippe: the force. Is that the next
Shubh: That's what I was trying to do a Star Wars thing. It didn't work.
Philippe: Is that the next Star Wars?
No, it's
Shubh: gonna be
Philippe: like a random,
Shubh: just Oh, and you also have the Force is what it's going to be called. Uh, you're still here because last week or one of the previous episodes, I should say it. That was recorded last week. Uh, I realized belatedly that you had hit the six episode mark Yeah. That we had talked about [00:01:00] for you to go from guest co-host to co-host
Dallas: to co-host.
Co-host.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: So now you're co-hosting.
Philippe: That's great. What does that functionally change for me?
Shubh: Uh, I was like, do I need to put his name on the logo? But then I thought, well then we're, we're gonna have to get our designer redo the logo. Nope.
Philippe: Right.
Shubh: Well, we, we don't, we don't have the time, energy, or money to do that or
Philippe: budget.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah.
Philippe: That's right. It was
Shubh: a i'll. I, I think, uh, it materially changes nothing for you.
Philippe: It's kind of good. I, I like, um, like I've been, like today I posted on LinkedIn, um, again, uh, well no one even saw it. I think two people liked it. I liked it. So you liked it. Uh, so it didn't really matter, but it's fun to post and be like, oh, Shoub posted this conversation that he had with Tate Hackers, and it feels like there's like a layer of removal.
I don't know why. So if you put me on the cover art, maybe I'll, I'll feel.
Shubh: I still think we stick with the co-host moniker. It gives you plausible deniability.
Philippe: Guest [00:02:00] co-host.
Shubh: Yeah. Yes. Well, I don't know if we guest, co-host, maybe just co-host,
Philippe: right?
Shubh: So it gives you, you know, a degree of separation, kinda go, I don't know what they're doing over there.
Right.
Philippe: Yeah. What do they call, what do they call it? The, the, I don't watch Conan, but what do they call like Paul Schaeffer?
Shubh: Well, uh, you mean back in the, in the old days
In
Philippe: like David Linderman?
Shubh: Yeah. He wouldn't be any, yeah, he doesn't get co-host. Is he
Philippe: just an announcer?
Shubh: He's just the band leader. You could be the band leader.
You, you, you've been using the, you've been using the mixer a lot.
Philippe: Do I get to hit those
Shubh: buttons? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You would be a great band leader. You gotta laugh.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: How long is this gonna go on?
Philippe: Oh,
Shubh: that's pretty good. Uh, so, but hilariously, you texted me this week and said, Hey, uh, for this first recording today, 'cause we're doing a couple uhhuh, you have to duck out.
Philippe: Yeah. And I, I did give you like three weeks notice
Shubh: your two weeks.
Philippe: Yeah. It was
Shubh: a long time. This time, time has both, uh, compressed and decompress [00:03:00] in this, in this podcast arena. Yeah. I ran into a friend of mine at the gym and she said she's an avid listener. She said, Hey. You know, I'm actually confused about the timeline.
I know you guys are
Philippe: right,
Shubh: but I am, and I'm like, yeah, because it's real. Our timeline confusion is real. This isn't a bit we're doing.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: I don't know what we did last week.
Philippe: Or like what episode is coming out last week. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. And, and uh, sometimes we'll record an episode and, and then cut them.
Yeah, that's
Shubh: right. So you have to, so, so here's what happened. The timeline events was you got officially anointed.
Philippe: Mm-hmm.
Shubh: Co-host 'cause you, 'cause you hit your, your um, punch card was full.
Philippe: Right. And that happened last week.
Shubh: Yeah. And then immediately you were like, ah, hey, SHB. I gotta duck out during the next episode.
So it was like once you got.
Philippe: Tenure.
Shubh: Yeah, tenure. You just want a vacation.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Immediately
Philippe: Uhhuh,
Shubh: can somebody cover my class? Is basically what he says.
Philippe: Oh, this is great. I'm [00:04:00] good now. Like at this point you have to fire me.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah. Now it's, now it's not. Now it's, I don't have to invite you back every time.
It went from an opt in to an opt out.
Philippe: Right. Exactly.
Shubh: Yeah. Which is a much harder conversation to have.
Philippe: It is. Yeah. And it's much more awkward before. And so I'm sort of relying on that. You will not want to be that awkward with me.
Shubh: No,
Philippe: it's, and so I can get away with ducking out
Shubh: early on the episode. I see you all the time.
I can't be like, Hey Phil, uh, you know, don't worry about next week. You'll be like, why Schu? Oh, you know, we probably won't record, but you'll see me walking into the studio 'cause it's right across from your office.
Philippe: Right.
Shubh: And he'd be like, what are you doing? And he'll be like, oh, I'm just checking some uh, levels.
Yeah. Then two other people will come in and one of 'em will be wearing a guest co-host shirt.
Philippe: It's, it's Dan Chapman.
Shubh: Dan Chapman. Dan Chapman, uh uh, maybe the biggest advocate for this show.
Philippe: Yeah,
Shubh: he's as big an advocate as. The size of his idea, which was the giant pierogi.
Philippe: What I love most about our skewed [00:05:00] timeline
Shubh: Yes.
Philippe: Is we can pay, we can pay Dan compliments.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Now in the present time.
Shubh: Yeah. And he won't hear them.
Philippe: And he's gonna hear them in, in a month's time.
Shubh: Yes, that's right.
Philippe: Which is very fun. See, in the same way that I forgot that I told Dan, I, I was like, take that Dan Chapman on the episode with Tate. And, uh, I forgot that it did that and that episode came out like two weeks later.
Yeah. And like, oh, amazing. That's hilarious.
Shubh: Yeah. I think one of the things I truly am struggling with as I, um, launch this new part of my career. And just for my wife listening, I will, I still have another career. It's not just this, um, is that when you do record a bunch together, you wanna talk about all of them that you just did.
Philippe: Right.
Shubh: But for the listener. They only heard the last one you released, so you should really, in each episode just talk about the previous episode.
Philippe: That's right.
Shubh: But I wanna talk about all three we did last week, because in my head I haven't talked about them yet. [00:06:00] Even though
Philippe: right.
Shubh: By the time people hear this Uhhuh, I'm almost certainly would've talked about them already.
Philippe: What, what was your favorite under the three? 'cause at this point they'll have heard,
Shubh: well, actually all three. We're kind of awesome that we did last week. So we had, um, my friend, uh, Charles Guido, Chuck
Philippe: Chucky,
Shubh: quarterback founder Elite
Philippe: League.
Shubh: Two great ideas. One you were all in on. Um, Rachel Zimmer from Simple Ventures was incredible.
I don't know why she agreed to be on our program. She's so capable and talented and smart and,
Philippe: uh,
Shubh: uh, and an improv.
Philippe: She invited us to improv.
Shubh: We, we got an invite to improv, so I
Philippe: booked to, to,
Shubh: I We gotta go to Toronto.
Philippe: I'm been drunk.
Shubh: We gotta go.
Philippe: Yes. And,
Shubh: and then the folks from, uh, taste the City founders of this really cool startup here in town.
They also decided to go on IG Live while we were recording the podcast, which
Philippe: was a lot for you, I
Shubh: think. Yeah, I think there was a lot going on. I will [00:07:00] see how the audio for that episode comes out.
Philippe: I've noticed that about you. I think when, when things are a little too hectic,
Shubh: yeah,
Philippe: it might just be in this really small room, like when things in this room are not going according to plan.
Shubh: I think it's age related. You know, as you get older you can just not, you can just not accept as many inputs. We, uh, we had the stark realization today, and I probably have talked about this already before. You were born just a couple of months before I graduated from high school.
Philippe: Yeah,
Shubh: so. I could legitimately, uh, be like a father figure, I think, ultimately, right?
Philippe: Yeah. You hold on. I think I see what you're trying to do here. You're trying to put me into the bucket where like, I, I think of you like Michael Jordan. Absolutely not. I can look at you like a father. I don't.
Shubh: Both you and Chaz are quite a bit younger, and actually that whole conversation has spurred a pitch that I will have for the two of you
Philippe: Okay.
Shubh: In the coming, in the coming weeks.
Philippe: Okay. I'm
Shubh: excited. Or [00:08:00] either the coming weeks or yesterday. Honestly, I don't, I don't know at this, at this point in time.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Today we've got,
Philippe: by the way, when this episode, sorry to cut you off. When this episode comes out, you're talking about my birthday.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: I will have already turned my, the age I will be.
Shubh: Right.
Philippe: So if you see me and you hear this, you're welcome to wish me a happy belated birthday in case you forgot. Am I allowed to do that?
Shubh: Uh, yeah. Sorry, Chaz, our producer, Chaz, who's not on the call right now is like, Hey, uh, can you send me the link for the recording?
Philippe: Hey, sorry, I just woke up.
Shubh: I mean, on one hand I feel bad 'cause we give Chaz a little bit of heat, but on the other hand he does stuff like this, right?
Like so
Philippe: yeah.
Shubh: Um, you ask me
Philippe: what I'm doing for my birthday.
Shubh: No, hold on. Because the reason I need a producer is when you forget your guest's name.
Philippe: Is that what's happening?
Shubh: No, we're good. Uh, so today, before I ask about your birthday today, we have, uh, Dallas Price from Forum Ventures is coming on. Uh, this was a rather hilarious set.
I [00:09:00] can't believe you forgot. Set. This is a rather hilarious set of circumstances. So Dallas is coming on. Um, him and I had chatted previously on LinkedIn several months ago. You and him recently chatted. He did this thing on LinkedIn where he posted up, Hey founder's, three line pitch. And I'll tell you what I think.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: I don't think there's a more perfect person to come on this podcast and throw some ideas out. Maybe we'll even get his opinion on some of the previous ideas that have been on the pod.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah,
Philippe: that would be great. When I originally, so I, we both reached out to him individually as like asking him to, to be a guest, but I.
Had reached out to him, I think post episode one.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: And so I still thought I was just guest co-hosting. And so I was like, Hey dude, you should guest co-host on this podcast. Yeah. And he was like, I would love to. And then you also reached out to him. Well,
Shubh: the great thing is, because you're bailing halfway through this interview Yeah.
He can step right into the chair. So we're gonna talk to him about that.
Philippe: No, this is my exit interview.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah. [00:10:00] You had, uh, you just had one good run, right? What did Neil Young say? It's better to burn out than to fade away, you know?
Philippe: Oh, amen. Neil Young, famous at Winnipegger,
Shubh: uh, okay. What are you doing for your birthday?
It.
Philippe: I am, I allowed
Shubh: Talk about that.
Philippe: How dare you. You can't ask a man that I am, I just booked, I booked it last night at 10:30 PM Okay. Uh, because every year I've decided that what I like to do, I, I, I've decided I want minimal plans, but I want my friends to be there. And so you kind of do have to make a plan.
So it's always been like, let's go for dinner and just a table of 10. And it's always been at, um, like a nicer restaurant.
Shubh: Sure.
Philippe: I've gone the other way and I've. Decided to book a 15 person reservation at a like pretty shitty Chinese restaurant.
Shubh: Yeah. Don't say the name of the restaurant.
Philippe: Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Shubh: With that intro.
Philippe: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes. So. I'm so pumped. I'm sorry. Sometimes
Shubh: those are the best nights.
Philippe: I think they will be, right? Yeah. Like I don't want to be overly [00:11:00] pretentious and like sit around and be like, oh, the the is so good.
Shubh: Yeah. The only time you're overly pretentious is when you compare the startup ecosystem to.
The Renaissance in Florence.
Philippe: I like that. I mean, there's a lot of times where I'm also more pretentious. But
Shubh: stay tuned for that episode. Phil does 90 minutes on Florence. The parallels we can draw from the Da Vinci era in Florence.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: To what the prairies need in their startup ecosystem.
Philippe: That's right. Uh huh
Shubh: That actually, that's one whole tech Thursday panel is gonna be you playing the different roles of artists from the Renaissance as though they were starting a startup.
Philippe: Right. And as the, like in, I just put on different, like, colors of, uh, my turtle. Well,
Shubh: because you'll have to hop between uh, uh, chairs. I think it'll just be hat. Like, you just have to go different hat.
Philippe: But I mean, if it was, if it was the, uh, sort of the, the, [00:12:00] the blindfold, it's like the raccoon masks, because I could be Donatello, I could be Michelangelo.
Oh, so
Shubh: you, you'd be a teenager Ninja Turtle.
Philippe: Yeah. Because those are all Renaissance characters from Florence.
Shubh: Yeah. I, yeah. Okay.
Philippe: But there's no Da Vinci is there. There's Leonardo.
Shubh: There's Leonardo Donatello.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Raphael,
Philippe: Raphael,
Shubh: Michelangelo,
Philippe: Michelangelo. Famous Renaissance painter,
Shubh: splinters the rat. I don't think he's based on a,
just is not on the call. He would, he would put a stop to this nonsense.
Philippe: Yeah, I would assume. I would assume some of this content is gonna get cut, right?
Shubh: A hundred percent. Yeah. That whole teenage did. Eternal thing is definitely get cut. We're gonna step out here. We'll be back with Dallas Price.
Dallas: Hi everybody.
It's Chubb here. Are you a startup founder or a scale up exec that's trying to take your company to the next level?
Shubh: Are you looking for the right people to help you do it? Are you looking for people who will help you set culture, who have deep domain expertise, who can figure [00:13:00] anything out? Who are Swiss Army knives and unicorns?
How are you finding those people? Are you juggling multiple job boards? Are you screening hundreds of resumes, doing dozens of interviews? Is it working? I bet it's not. Are you frustrated? I bet you are. Do you know how I know that? Because once upon a time I was you. Then I discovered the new network.
Jennifer Weens and her team at the New Network helped Canadian tech companies build and scale high performance teams through a proven unique approach to recruitment and executive search also. They're awesome. I use them to help build most of my team at ZayZoon and I would use them again, and I've recommended them to everyone that I know.
Check out new network.ca for more details. The new network, I couldn't have done it without them. Welcome back. Back here with Philip Burns and our guest today. Dallas Price Forum Ventures Dallas, thanks for joining us today.
Dallas: Yeah, a hundred percent man. Appreciate you having me on.
Shubh: [00:14:00] So Dallas, Phil, you and I both have interacted with Dallas, largely on LinkedIn.
I've spoken to Dallas, but it was LA last summer.
Philippe: Well, you Dallas, you've been on some tech there in Winnipeg, right?
Dallas: Yeah, I was on one. Uh, I got to talk about fundraising.
Shubh: So Dallas, what prompted this, I think I was getting together is, um, you put out a call on LinkedIn. We'll get to what you do and why this is relevant here in a second, you put out a call on LinkedIn, basically said, Hey.
Any startup founders out there, pitch me your idea in like three lines, I think you said, and you'll give them feedback and it sort of blew up a little. Yes. I would say that's, yeah, a hundred
Dallas: percent. Yeah. There was like, there's like 600 comments, so people were interacting. Yeah, I mean like 150 of those were probably me, but yeah, there's probably like, like 250
Shubh: ideas
Dallas: in there.
Shubh: It all counts. And one of the ideas that you got pitched in those comments was a podcast where people pitch dumb business ideas. Which was, which was me. Commenting on your rather serious Both. So, so, uh, before we kinda get into things, maybe you could talk a bit about yourself, your background. And forum and like, [00:15:00] um, and what that's all about.
We really like what you guys are up to out there. But yeah, maybe just walk us through your, your story.
Dallas: So I grew up in Winnipeg, uh, went to the University of Manitoba. There's like very little like tech ecosystem in Winnipeg, but eventually discovered like Y Combinator, Sam Altman talking about startups.
And I fell in love with it. So started working with startups. I had like my own agency, did that for a while and made like no money. Um, and then eventually I was like, it'd be cool to like, you know, make some money. You
Shubh: just, you just described this podcast.
Dallas: Yeah. Literally, you're like, yeah, I don't make any money yet, but like maybe one day, which would be really cool.
So then I joined another agency. They paid me, which was super cool. Uh, then I made my way to collabs in Saskatoon, which is a technology accelerator there. Then I eventually met the team at Forum. Uh, just kept emailing them and eventually they're like, I guess we gotta like, give this guy a job or something if he's gonna keep annoying us.
So they, they gave me a job at the, our Venture Studio. So Form has a couple different ways we invest in companies. [00:16:00] We're, we're a venture fund out in New York. We also have an office in San Fran, in, in Toronto. Uh, we have a couple different investment vehicles. We have, uh, incubator or an accelerator basically working with early stage companies, a little bit of cash, but basically accelerate and go to market and fundraising, and then a seed fund, which is your more typical.
Cash for equity deal. And then the part of the business that I work on, which is probably why I, you know, I'm good for this podcast, is we have a studio. So we come up with our own ideas, validate those ideas, and then eventually spin them out with founders, write a 250 k check to kick the company off and then basically go from there to, uh, seed and then start rolling off.
And hopefully that company continues on as, as far as it can go.
Shubh: Sick. That's amazing. I think we talked a bit about this before, but. I really personally love the idea of people who are out there kind of de-risking or taking part of the fear, and then some of the onus away. I think we've historically romanticized founders who would Oh, sleep in your car.
Right? Um, and but what that does is it cuts out like a, a [00:17:00] huge portion of the population who could potentially start companies. 'cause they, you know, they have families or the what, you know, they, they actually totally. They don't have the luxury of, Hey kids, let's go sleep in the car tonight. Um, and so I think that you guys kind of providing a bit of that seed capital and also ultimately the sort of resourcing and foundational parts around it, I think is really, really cool and really, really important.
Philippe: Yeah. Also, just so you know, we did have Rachel from Simple Ventures on another studio. Yeah. And so if your pitch is worse than hers, everyone's gonna know. It's gonna be so embarrassing.
Shubh: Yeah, we'll cut that part out. Yeah. Yeah.
Dallas: Just if it, if it's worse than hers, you can just cut the whole episode. We don't even need to put it on the air then.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Philippe: Just, just to make sure that the stakes are adequately high for you going into this big pitch,
Shubh: can I ask you a question when you, when you post that stuff on LinkedIn? Um, so let's say you got a couple hundred people kind of go, Hey. Here's this idea. How many of them were good? Legitimately, you don't have to say which ones, but just like give, give us a [00:18:00] percentage.
Dallas: Yeah. So like what is a good idea versus not a good idea is like what I was evaluating it on very much so was like, is this an investible company? Or like, do I think if this were going off for a seed round, it would be in a good position to raise. So of the, let's say three or 400 companies that pitched legitimately like 15 or 20 are like what I would say are companies that would be like in a good position to be venture backable.
Yeah,
Shubh: that's pretty good.
Dallas: Yeah, when you have that vast amount of companies, there's just certain industries like Go to Market or like recruitment like that are just seeing like so much influx of AI solutions that unless you're like ANT or founder and like by Ant Founder, I mean the VP at Salesforce or you know, even higher, it's just like super difficult to raise.
So even people that I would say have very solid backgrounds, um, they just. Get into a situation where every investor has seen 10 iterations of this and they just don't know what to do with it at that point.
Shubh: Hmm. Gotcha. Um, uh, Dallas, have you had a chance to listen to any of the episodes?
Dallas: I haven't [00:19:00] listened yet.
I like know the premise of the show, but have not, yeah, I haven't listened
Shubh: to
Dallas: one. Okay.
Shubh: So just to kinda level set, um, what we do generally is people come on, either we pitch them or they pitch us. A lot of times mostly people pitch us and it's, the idea is like you're pitching an idea. Uh, that's like serious, but not So we've had people pitch a giant pierogi.
I pitched inflatable n neoprene shorts. You can keep under your, your swim trunks to help you stay afloat without looking like you're wearing a floaty
Dallas: uhhuh.
Shubh: Phil pitched, uh, pips lips, which is lip care for men with no lips or small lips.
Dallas: Okay?
Philippe: That's
Shubh: right. And then, uh, we'll go from there.
Dallas: I'll pitch you guys an idea.
The basic premise though is like, this is not like. It's obviously like a business show, but it's supposed to be like fun, right? Because this is not a very, I mean, it's like a serious idea in a lot of ways, but it's not, you know, it's not like a real business idea.
Philippe: That's perfect.
Shubh: That's,
Philippe: you completely nailed what we're going
Shubh: for, even without listening to the program.
Yeah. The idea, I mean, if I was being sort of, um, [00:20:00] full of ourselves, full of myself, the idea is yes, it's a bunch of idiots talking about stuff on our side, but we've had some pretty cool people come on. And kind of, I think the, the concept for me is like, can we make tech and startups more a little more accessible to people who aren't us?
Right? Like, so we've got a lot of people listening who. You know, teachers, nutritionists, dentists, like people who don't know what we do. But again, if I was to be aspirational about it, it's like, Hey, our world seems very weird to a lot of other people. Mm-hmm. And can we, the more we can normalize it or make it more accessible, maybe other people start, start stuff.
You know what I mean?
Dallas: Sick.
Philippe: Yeah. And so Dallas, also from Winnipeg. So is Neil Young, Neil Young's also from Winnipeg, which, uh, we just talked about. But, um, I had a pitch just to warm you up. I'm curious what you think of this pitch. Okay. Winnipeg, uh, no one really likes to go to Winnipeg. It's got a bad rap, right?
Dallas: Yeah, a hundred percent.
Philippe: So my pitch is. Winnipeg should rebrand [00:21:00] to being the Las Vegas of Canada. Where instead of going to, to Las Vegas with your bachelor or bachelorette, it's in the middle of the country. It's just got everything. It's got a casino downtown, everything. Uh, call it Las Pega.
Dallas: Uh, totally with it.
We, we always wanted like a waterpark and we never got one. Yeah. Um, obviously the problem is that like nobody really, it's the
Shubh: seven weeks a year in waterpark when the open,
Dallas: literally,
Shubh: I grew up in Edmonton, so listen. I understand.
Dallas: Yeah. You're allowed to say it. Yeah. I mean the, the problem is nobody wants to come here in the winter, but in the summer you could probably make it like a pretty, and nobody wants to go to Vegas in the summer because it's so hot.
So maybe you could reverse it where we're like Vegas during summer.
Philippe: Oh shit. I love that.
Shubh: That's what take, right? You kind of just go. Hey, seasonal Vegas
Philippe: season. In the summertime, Vegas,
Shubh: and you know, climate change, Vegas gonna get hotter. That season's gonna get longer
Philippe: and Winnipeg's gonna get colder and colder.
Shubh: Nope. I actually don't know what will happen. [00:22:00] Uh, alright, so that was one of Phil's ideas. Just to give you an example of the kind of thing we're talking about. His wasn't so much a business idea, it's just like a cultural shift for Winnipeg. Yeah.
Dallas: Foreign investment. You really trying to like revitalize the city.
Exactly. I, I, yeah, I'm with it. I agree with it.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Where the weather's cold, but the dices are hot.
Shubh: The dices,
Philippe: the dices,
Dallas: the table, the table's hot. Like
Philippe: the table's hot's
Dallas: hot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Philippe: Thank you. D
Shubh: The plural of dice is
Philippe: die. Okay. Sorry,
Shubh: we
Dallas: just wait two dice. Two dice is dice, isn't it? One, it's D is one and dice two.
Philippe: A Dai is one and a dice is two, and then three is dice is
Dallas: no, I think it's just three Dice.
Philippe: Dice is singular.
Dallas: No,
Philippe: always dices. That's like mice. I think it's like mice. Oh, like three mice?
Shubh: Yeah.
Dallas: Yeah.
Philippe: Four dice.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it's dices. Dices is when you chop something [00:23:00] and we're back. We just did seven minutes on the grammatical correctness of Philips Vegas idea largely around the singular plural of dice die.
Yes. Die, I believe is the, is the singular.
Philippe: I love how you're like, uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna transition outta this. Yeah. Let's, let's go back and do it and do more.
Shubh: Uh, this is Canada's dumbest podcast. Uh, okay. Dallas, uh, you've heard a little bit of that background. You obviously have an immense amount of experience, hearing pitches, evaluating companies, but now we're flipping it around on you.
Right. You're gonna, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna get a sense of what it feels like when the founder's sitting across the table from you is getting all sweaty. So do you have an idea that you would like to pitch us today?
Dallas: I, yeah, I have an idea. I'd love to pitch you. It's actually an idea I've thought about in a way.
Like how can we, we launch it, but the unfortunate part of this problem is. It's, uh, it's not even morally gray. It's like morally black, and it's like definitely, definitely versions of it are like incredibly [00:24:00] illegal. Then some versions are like kind of illegal. So I'm trying to figure out what are the versions that are not so illegal.
So do you guys know like, I love this. Do you guys know what happened with like rippling and deal? Uh,
Shubh: yeah, the corporate. Corporate espionage.
Dallas: Exactly.
Shubh: So here, uh, we, yeah, you can explain a bit and we'll also put some, a great summary in the show notes for people who aren't in our world because this was a big deal in, in tech, but I don't think anyone else knew about it.
Yeah, yeah,
Dallas: yeah. So basically deal and rippling, they're two like HR softwares, uh, deal basically got. One of their employees or somebody they knew, or maybe they just like turned somebody that was in rippling, but basically they had somebody on the inside of rippling feeding them back, you know, deal info.
Okay. And it's basically corporate espionage. So what I was thinking is like. The problem was not that they were doing corporate espionage, the problem was they sucked at corporate espionage. Right. Okay. When you think about it, like the, the stuff is an organization you are not good at, you outsource, right?
[00:25:00] So if that's development, finance, accounting, why? If you sucked at corporate espionage, would you not outsource your corporate espionage? Oh, to a better corporate espionage firm.
Shubh: Oh, so the pitches third party corporate espionage firm.
Dallas: Corporate espionage as a service.
Philippe: That's so incredible. What are the laws around corporate ESP espina like? Like what is illegal? Like it's just illegal point back or? No, surely not.
Shubh: Love doubt.
Dallas: So, so yeah, you've obviously
Shubh: done a bunch of homework here. Let's hear it.
Dallas: So, I mean, that's the thing, there's different versions of corporate espionage, right?
So in the deal rippling version, that's like a hundred percent illegal and like, it's even like being looked at by the Fed. So like that is the scary part. But like, I'm thinking like low tier corporate espionage, for example, like you run Calgary's hottest bagel shop. All of a sudden some other new hot bagel shop pops up their Instagram's popping.
What you do is you [00:26:00] hire a bunch of people to spam report the account and basically ruin their engagement. Or like go on Google and like give them a bunch of like one, two star reviews and basically like tank their reviews and like ruin their image as a brand. Oh
Philippe: my God.
Shubh: Yeah. Uh.
Philippe: I That feels like worse than the first one.
Shubh: Yeah, it does. It does feel like worse. So, so
Philippe: like those are just bots, you know?
Shubh: Uh, yeah. Yeah. I think there is though the whisper of an idea here, because there's degrees of, uh, impropriety, let's call it, right? Like, so one is as employees the terms your agreement will be such that you don't, you know, spill corporate secrets.
There's the famous story about, was it the Pepsi and Coke one where the guy gave Pepsi the Coke recipe and Pepsi called Coke and was like, Hey man, just somebody's trying to give us your recipe. I think that's a real story. I might have just made it up. Um, I'll take that. I might have just made it up part out though, [00:27:00] so Sounds like a real story.
So I think that there are levels, um, of impropriety. Like there's like, Hey, you shouldn't do this. Then to your point, oh no, this is actually like fraud or illegal and then there's like a tank, the competitor stuff, which to Phil's point, I think that exists already. You just a bunch of bots.
Philippe: Yeah, just a bunch of bots.
Shubh: Just a bunch of bots.
Philippe: Well, I mean, what I love about, okay, here's where I see,
Shubh: yeah,
Philippe: this is like privatized. Espionage. This is Priva Privatized, CIA.
Shubh: It's like Inception. You remember Inception? Yeah. Where you brought in those guys,
Philippe: right.
Shubh: To get, and they were trying to steal corporate secrets basically.
Dallas: Exactly.
Philippe: But, and then part of this is kind of like, I don't know what Palantir does, but I feel like that's just like privatized. Data collection on like all citizens. Yeah. This might
Dallas: just
Shubh: be happening already.
Philippe: Yeah, exactly. We just like, we just like have to pay Palantir a lot of money and I'm
Dallas: some version of this is happening, right?
Like for sure. But the thing is they're good at the corporate espionage, right? Like if you're not getting caught, you're good. [00:28:00] So clearly like are they outsourcing the espionage? That's what I wanna know.
Shubh: Like, what would you really want to know? I always think about this from a corporate espionage perspective, certainly in like the food and beverage industry.
Um, I would want ingredients,
Philippe: right?
Shubh: Like how you made it. Right.
Philippe: Yeah. Like that is a, that's a great point.
Shubh: Now when we get to different types, like, okay. Again, part of this podcast goal is to make this more accessible, so let's step away from tech for a second.
Dallas: Yep. Yep.
Shubh: Bagel shop example, right. Why are these bagels so good?
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Maybe I can get, maybe I can figure out what's in the bagel.
Philippe: Send, send a little, a little sous chef in
Shubh: there. Yeah. That feels like stealing too, honestly.
Philippe: Well, that's what this company is.
Shubh: Okay.
Philippe: Is illegal.
Shubh: So, so far I don't have a legal use case. Okay. Let's, let's widen the action.
Philippe: Yeah. But it doesn't have, you can make money.
I mean, these, you can make money doing illegal things as well.
Shubh: Yeah,
Philippe: I suppose.
Shubh: But this podcast is getting, this episode's getting away from this. Uh, okay. So let's say, uh, other [00:29:00] types of businesses. I, I mean, I think a lot of this stuff happens in larger business like. Pharmaceuticals, certainly. You know, again, I'm talking about recipes.
I think like that seems to be the most practical application of this is, is, yeah, what did you use to make something?
Dallas: Or maybe even just like culture or like, you know, or like maybe you're inside their like media operation. You know how they're doing marketing well. Yeah. What are they using for, you know, their Facebook ads?
How are they getting all their customers? You know, really just the strategies that is like propelling this company. Or could you find dirt inside the company of like, you know, you actually find that like they're not following like, uh, you know, health and safety rules and you're like, oh, so I like this one.
They don't clean their cutting board three times a day. You know?
Shubh: I like pulling this last one out.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: If your corporate espionage is for good.
Dallas: Yep. There we go.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Right. So
Philippe: that's where I was going to,
Shubh: yeah. You've gotta outsource corporate espionage. But it's like a Aaron Brockovich situation, [00:30:00] right?
Right. For all you young people out there, that's a movie
Philippe: or what about, what about, um, like again, the chef idea, you send, uh, spies in to get recipes and then we publish. A free online cookbook with like the sub subways bread? I
Shubh: don't, I don't think this is the same thing. No, I was saying
Philippe: give a take from the risk from
Shubh: the poison Robinhood.
I was saying outsource corporate espionage to find out what your competitors are doing. That's illegal. And then you whistle blow. Right. You're just saying. Go get the recipes and put 'em online
Philippe: or like, you know, you could sell the cookbook, I guess.
Shubh: Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, I'm gonna try to wrangle this into where I think the, the, the moral high ground.
And I think that, uh, where we're gonna go with this is corporate espionage. You can feel good about.
Dallas: I could, we could roll on that because I, I was talking to somebody about, was like workers' compensation claims and like so many firms like hide their workers' comp claims because it like [00:31:00] shoots their rates through the roof.
So could you like go inside your competitor's organization and like figure out all the times that they like weren't paying workers' comp to people and they were just like sliding it under the rug. Uh.
Philippe: Yeah, is this just a union?
Dallas: But this is the for-profit version because somebody can pay you to do this activities because overall it's, you know, hurting one of your competitors.
So there is financial gain. There's also whistle blowing rules in the US where like if you uncover like certain amounts of fraud, you, you're entitled to like amounts of money that's recovered. So there is like a for-profit version of this that could be, you know, for the betterment of society, but also for the betterment of you, which is how all great capitalist ideas start.
Shubh: Yeah, I, I, I'm coming around on, I mean, when you first pitch it, I was like, Ooh, I dunno, uh, I'm coming around. If your third party corporate espionage specifically, has like a very strong moral fiber. [00:32:00] So like, if Phil rings me up and I'm running this firm and like, Hey, I'd like to get the recipe for. This other bakery's bread, which is selling like,
Philippe: right,
Shubh: I was gonna say hotcakes, but selling like bread.
And I was like, ah, you know, that's like a mom and pop shop. It feels like they're doing great work. No, we're not taking it, and then I report you for trying to hire me.
Philippe: Oh yeah.
Shubh: So it's a little honey trap situation. But then if somebody comes to me and says, Hey, I think one of our competitors is putting mercury in the water supply.
Dallas: Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Philippe: Right.
Shubh: Like I'm in,
Philippe: what if, what if this was, um, what if this was corporate espionage? But we will only retrieve information through legal means.
Shubh: Oh,
Philippe: meaning like we will not pose as an employee. Go. So it's
Shubh: all through public disclosures and, yeah,
Philippe: or like, or like, yes. Exact public disclosures or just chatting with people or just chatting with people.
Be like, Hey, you wanna go for a drink? [00:33:00] Like I like after work or you go to networking events. Like we will be, we will befriend these people and they will tell us about like. Tommy from work and like everything else. And that's, you know, that's like,
Shubh: this is how journalism works.
Philippe: That's how journalism works.
It's like journalism. We'll get the scoop, but we're not going to do anything fishy.
Shubh: This is even better. This is even better than the previous iteration of this idea, right? I still like the idea of, uh, when someone reaches out to get someone to do something untoward, I report them. You know, I just like, but I really like this idea of like, Hey, we'll get you the information you need, and they'll be like, by any means necessary, and we'll be like, no.
Philippe: No, by legal means,
Shubh: by, by, by just the means.
Philippe: Like if, but then again, like if there's a mom and pop or there's a like just a pop. Or, or, or like just a baker.
Shubh: Yep.
Philippe: And we're like, we really need this recipe. It's like, okay. You go, you make them fall in love with you.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: They, they make you the
Shubh: bacon. No, I think you had it.
And I think you're sliding back, [00:34:00] you're sliding back into the part that would be,
Philippe: they write down the recipe you want, give you their grandmother's recipe and then boom, I see it. That's where you're making your money.
Shubh: Listen, you wanna be able to sleep at night. Okay. You know what I mean? And so
Philippe: I think this is about sleeping at night.
Is it Dallas?
Dallas: I mean, sleep is important. You gotta care about your health. But like also all great business ideas make money, right? So I, I think that we gotta figure out the line here where we can both sleep and make money. I
Shubh: think, listen, I helped build a company called ZayZoon, which you know, has done pretty well, but also tried to do the right thing, right?
Right. Try to improve people's financial position. I think this idea is doable. I think you can do both here. I think you can make money.
And you can, uh, make the world a better place at the same time.
I mean, you would need some very, very principled leadership.
Philippe: Right?
Shubh: That would be the big, probably the biggest risk here is like, it would be real easy. I mean, you guys have done it both three times [00:35:00] in the course of this conversation. Be real easy in like six weeks to slip into, ah, maybe we'll just take this one, this one client on
Dallas: cash flow's a little low.
Like this is close enough to the line.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you would have to have like a real. The moral high ground that you have to maintain would have to be unimpeachable.
Dallas: I think what I'm also thinking through in this situation is that. All of what we're discussing probably actually already takes place.
Yes, that's right. And we don't hear about it. Like all of this is like, oh, befriend the CEO O or
Philippe: Right.
Dallas: You know, like at major corporations or like, I
Shubh: think it's called investment banking. Sorry. Sorry buddy.
Philippe: That's right. You could actually just like, I don't wanna call my friend up, but I don't Friend's an investor Religiou guy.
Hey, like I mi like I might invest in your company. Let's go for coffee. Yeah, that's right. They just go for coffee. Tell them everything. Like,
Shubh: yeah. I think this whole relationship angle of just getting people to tell you stuff, I [00:36:00] think, and people will be like, well, why do I need to hire you to do that?
You're like, well, we're just really likable.
Dallas: Yeah, we're great at this.
Shubh: Yeah. I mean, we have a podcast that's about business that makes people laugh.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Imagine what we could do. Over a drink.
Philippe: Yeah. We got Tate on you to talk about his hair transplant.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. People choose to be vulnerable. Right?
Philippe: That's actually what this podcast becomes. It's like we invite them on, like this is the secret.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah, exactly.
Shubh: Dallas, can you speak an excruciating detail about the cap table of every company that you've invested in? Which are your best founders and, and which are the founders are like, eh, I don't know.
You know?
Philippe: And if, and if you were rippling, what would you
Shubh: do? You know what, you know, what deal should have done this is, uh, this is a really interesting idea. I think we've gone on a bit of a journey. Uh, Phil has to duck out here. So let, let's score this one. We score, uh, Dallas at a 75 salsas here. I'm pretty sure you guys use the same rubric when you're investing in companies.
Dallas: You, so you scored out of what,
Shubh: 75 salsas. You'll have to [00:37:00] listen to the, uh, part of episode
Philippe: one. Yeah. Everyone, everyone who listens, listens to all of our episodes.
Shubh: Makes
Philippe: total sense.
Shubh: Yeah. We did have, someone came on and said, do you expect everybody to go back and listen to the first episode to understand your scoring system?
And so we didn't air that episode. Uh, anyway, Phil, you gotta, you gotta,
Philippe: in case you were thinking about criticizing us at any point.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Careful.
Shubh: You gotta jump.
Philippe: I gotta jump. Uh, but I think this is an okay idea. Makes my, my palms a little sweet.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like we're right on the edge.
Philippe: And so for me, this is like, uh.
I think this is like a 42 salsa idea at
Shubh: a
Philippe: 75. But it's fun. I like a little, like this is like, I love, uh, creative de like
Dallas: this is like a three jailhouse jalapenos at a 75
Shubh: situation, right? Where it's, it is, I mean, what I like about it on the SALSA scores, it is a spicy idea. Right?
Philippe: It is a
Shubh: But I think I'm with you.
It's like a 42.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. Okay, Phil, you gotta go.
Philippe: Bye. Dallas.
Shubh: Dallas. You and I are gonna stick around for a couple minutes. I'm gonna get your take on a couple of ideas here.
Dallas: Let's
Shubh: do it if that's okay with you. That was pretty good. That idea. I like ones that make [00:38:00] me uncomfortable. Uh uh Okay. So I wanna just do like a bit of a rapid fire here.
Okay. Because you have been, it's actually better that you haven't heard all the episodes because now this is all, all perfect. This is all new to you. Uh, I would love because of what you do, because of how you've engaged with people. Just maybe like a, a quick minute or two thoughts on each of these ideas.
I'm gonna throw you.
Dallas: Let's do it.
Shubh: Okay, so first idea that I pitched on the program was, um, uh, I grew up, you know, in an East Indian household. We didn't swim. Lessons were not, you know, exactly something. We did a lot of, I got older. My kids now are incredible swimmers, and so when I go to the pool. I feel like I just need a little help.
So I thought I've got my regular swim trunks, but you don't wanna like be wearing floaties and stuff right in the pool. You're still, you still wanna look cool. So like, uh, neoprene shorts, uh, do you remember the Reebok pump shoes? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just pump 'em up. Just pump 'em up a little so nobody can see.
It's just a little bit of a floating cysts, not a lifesaving device. Just, [00:39:00] uh, you know, keeps the, keeps the torso up so you can swim a little. Uh, 32nd thoughts.
Dallas: Yeah, I love this one. I started surfing this year and like, okay, when you're doing like big waves, you'll wear like something that if you get knocked out, it like brings you back to the surface.
Not that I was doing big waves, but like,
Shubh: yeah.
Dallas: So this version is the, like, I'm not gonna wear a full, you know, life vest because obviously I'm not doing those types of waves, but also like. You know, getting destroyed by a wave is also not fun, so it just brings you back to the surface a little bit quicker.
I give this 1 68 salsas.
Shubh: Holy smokes. This is a great start. Okay, next episode. Uh, this is great. This is also you auditioning to be a guest cohost, uh, when Phil's not available just for record after he gets to
Dallas: prison.
Shubh: That's right after, after he tries to implement your idea and we never see him again.
Next episode, Phil. Pitch something called Pip lips. You have a great mustache. Phil has a great mustache, but Phil says he has this mustache because he has very thin lips. So his idea was a lip care line for [00:40:00] men called Pips Lips, great branding. It was unclear what the actual product was like. It was just like a bomb.
But do you think there's a market for lip care for men who don't have full lips?
Dallas: No, I hate this idea. Uh, I feel like chaps stick worked. Chapstick is amazing. They're like a dollar. You lose them every week anyways. You just get a new one. Yeah, works fine. So I don't know if this is like lipstick, you can just buy lipstick.
I don't really see because it's like a male brand where you get made fun of less. Like Absolutely not. I, this is a,
Shubh: I love how. You just absolutely just rolled a truck over one of Phil's id.
Dallas: This is, this is nine salsa outta 75 for this one.
Shubh: Okay. That same episode I pitched. Um, you have a barbecue Dallas?
Dallas: Yeah. Yeah.
Shubh: All right. And you live in a cold weather place? Yes,
Dallas: totally. I like where this is going.
Shubh: You ever, uh, barbecue. Then you come back inside, you're having a nice evening, you're eating dinner, and then you look back outside. You haven't covered the barbecue and it's raining, or it's snowing or [00:41:00] it's cold and your whole evening's ruined.
Or worse, you don't go cover the barbecue and then your barbecue slowly gets ruined.
Dallas: Correct.
Shubh: And uh, if you try to put a regular barbecue cover on, I don't know how they do it. It's like trying to put a bed sheet on a bed, right? It's impossible. So my idea here was automated barbecue cover. So a little button accordion's back over the barbecue.
You don't have to leave the house, you're good to go.
Dallas: Love this. In fact, I would say, uh. Every part of the outside of my house in Winnipeg, I would like some version of this. So like the taking the garbage cans out, like if we can just like put 'em on a conveyor belt. Love that one. The, like automated. Oh
Shubh: yeah.
We could just, we could just do a whole line of automated lifestyle, cold weather things
Dallas: to avoid going outside. Yeah. Love this one. We'll give this one. Uh. 36 Snowman outta 75 SALs.
Shubh: 36 Snowman outta 75 SALs. Next episode, we had, uh, a friend of ours named Dan Chapman, who helps run a VC firm called Auger [00:42:00] vc.
Dallas: Okay.
Shubh: Dan basically pitched the idea that, um, pizza and giant subs for parties need to be disrupted, and the solution is a giant pierogi.
Dallas: As somebody who is half Ukrainian and eats a lot of pierogi, couldn't everybody just get a couple small pierogis? No, no,
Shubh: no. I think you're missing the point, right? It's like a centerpiece.
Dallas: Okay, got you. It's like, you know, it's, uh, not great, you know, culturally for me to say this, considering I am half Ukrainian, but like Pierogis, they're good, but like pizza's better, subs are better. So I, I, I don't love this one.
Shubh: Let me hit you with Dan's other idea, which was personalized swag. At events specifically in the form of a toaster that prints logos and such on your toast.
Dallas: This is amazing. I love this one. Yeah. Yeah. This, this idea is much better. Uh,
Shubh: and he called it, he called it Toast Ments.
Dallas: I love unique swag. I, uh, yeah, anything that, like, you're gonna actually like, show people or [00:43:00] use and like, you would, you would use that all the time. It'd be a great party trick. Uh, uh, I don't think it's quite as good as, as your original, you know, swim line, but I'll give that one like 62 salsas.
Shubh: That's really good. Dan's gonna be happy about that one. Okay. Um, we had a couple of other, I, we had a series, a couple folks I worked with at Za, and Tom and Erica pitch a bunch of ideas. Okay. Um, one of the ones I liked, hair of the Dog. So it's a hairdressing place on one side, dog grooming place on the other side, and it serves alcoholic beverages.
Dallas: So you go get your hair done while your dog
Shubh: gets hair. You get your hair done. Dogs getting the hair done. Everybody saves time and energy.
Dallas: Yeah. I think more combined places, like remember when they had like Pizza Hut and Taco Bell, or Pizza Hut and KFC, you know, like
Shubh: you said, you spent a little time in Saskatoon, right?
There was always famously that place the, the, uh. I can't remember what it was called. It was like a laundromat that was also a bar in Saskatoon. I been before your time. Yeah. So I like the idea of combining things together.
Dallas: I agreed. [00:44:00] And like, I think you could do it in, in a number of different ways. Why not even just have like a half restaurant, half barber, you know, your, your girlfriend's going to get a haircut.
You, you go get a sandwich. I more, more combination of places together. I'm a fan of.
Shubh: I love it. The, uh, do you play a little hockey? Did you ever play hockey?
Dallas: I can't skate, actually. Uh, I'm very un Canadian in this one.
Shubh: You're the only kid from Winnipeg.
Dallas: Only the only kid. Yeah. You're correct.
Shubh: But one of our guests came on, apparently hockey sticks now are like 400 bucks a pop.
Dallas: Really?
Shubh: And he was saying they get little, little fracture in the shaft and then eventually they break, and then that's it for the hockey stick. So his idea was, it's called the wraparound, almost like 3M tape for your hockey stick, especially for parents with kids who are going through two or three of these sticks.
A year. I thought that was a really cool idea. I like the idea of just an add-on to an existing product. Right. Just makes it more useful and extends the life. So yeah. And it's called the Wrap, called the wraparound.
Dallas: Yeah. I also say we should have another idea to not make [00:45:00] hockey sticks. $400. Whatever big hockey stick needs to be brought down clearly.
Shubh: Well, what our idea was, hockey's too expensive. Play another sport.
Dallas: That's also a great one.
Shubh: Yeah. And then finally our producer, Chaz, who wasn't on the call today, um, he came up with an idea while Phil was on vacation.
Dallas: Okay.
Shubh: Which was a desk called the Aqua Desk. So it's a floating chair with desk with waterproof protection for your laptop.
So you can sit in the pool and work when you're on vacation.
Dallas: Yeah.
Shubh: And it's, it's unflappable. These are all the guarantees you made. You can't flip it. Your laptop will not get wet. Uh, your laptop will not overheat, and you'll have a satellite backhaul for wifi.
Dallas: Yeah, this is, this is a hundred salsa outta 75.
Uh, I would sign up for this tomorrow. Yeah. Uh, you also need to figure out the, the light protection, right? Because like the problem when you're working in the sun, you can't see. So if he solves all those problems, I would buy one tomorrow. Remember that I love working in a pool.
Shubh: Remember the automated barbecue cover?
Dallas: Yeah. I mean, they're all,
Shubh: that's the [00:46:00] base, the base technology is, is your little umbrella for your aqua desks. Right? So
Dallas: there you go. I'm all in on the aqua desks.
Shubh: Uh, sounds like your favorite idea was aqua desks
Dallas: for sure. But also I course, I think that one's the technically hardest.
Shubh: Yeah. But I think there's an aquatic theme here, right?
Like you could
Dallas: for sure
Shubh: you could tie those things together.
Dallas: I love being in water, but it's, it's, it's a process and it's difficult. So the anything to make being in the water more
Shubh: often. If, if the aqua desk had like a backdrop that made it look like you weren't in the pool too, that'd be pretty handy.
Right. Especially, especially for what all of us do. Dallas, I do really appreciate you coming on. I really appreciate you coming on to pitch this idea. I appreciate you also, uh, soft auditioning as guest co-host now that Phil has built. I think what you guys are doing in a forum is really cool. I think anything, like I said, that can draw more people into entrepreneurship in Canada is amazing.
I just hope it continues and I hope that you continue to stay active on LinkedIn and get people to pitch your ideas because that was a lot of fun.
Dallas: [00:47:00] Sounds good, man. Really appreciate you having me on. And, uh, yeah, if anybody wants to reach out, just Dallas, price on LinkedIn, pretty active, so follow me. Uh,
Shubh: you will respond to your pitch
Dallas: most likely.
Most likely.
Shubh: Which, which honestly, and I'm not trying to throw shade on the entire VC market, like just the responding of is a big step to be honest. So Dallas, thanks very much man. I really appreciate it. We'll chat soon.
Dallas: Sounds good. See you later man.