YBIOTL S2E6
===
[00:00:00]
Shubh: Welcome to season two, episode six of "Your Business is on the Line," Canada's number one business comedy podcast for the 43rd week in a row
Philippe: Yep.
Shubh: It's the show where serious people come on and pitch unserious business ideas. I'm here with co-host Philip Burns of "Tech Thursday."
Philippe: Hello, hello, hello.
Shubh: Uh, and Kari Lee of Blue Marvel.
Keri: AI. AI. Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. Was it always Blue Marvel AI?
Keri: Yeah, you know- You
Shubh: were early in AI. Yeah.
Keri: We were, like, early in the- Yeah ... AI- Yeah ... where people are like: "Is there really AI?" Yeah. And we're like: "That was the only web URL we could buy-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Keri: at the time."
Shubh: Amazing.
Oh.
Keri: Um, so it felt right. Did you
Shubh: pick up a bunch of other domains? You would've been m- you're probably much more success... You've done [00:01:00] well, but you'd be even much more successful
Keri: if you bought just- If we could just get the dot com, you know? Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. No, I'm saying you should've bought a whole bunch of other AI domains.
Keri: Oh, yeah, we did that too.
Shubh: Oh, no, but like of random stuff.
Keri: Random.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like techthursday.ai. Yeah.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: No, don't do that. I
Shubh: don't
Philippe: think you should do that. That'd be
Shubh: silly. You better do that quick. You should, but you should get techthurs-thursdai, where you just replace the Y with an I. What do you think about that?
Philippe: That's, that's good.
Shubh: Yeah. Uh, Blue Marvel, uh, I'm gonna try to get Brown Marvel going as my new nickname. Okay. What do you guys think? No? That's
Philippe: your new superhero?
Shubh: Uh, Brown Marvel. Yeah. Just like, I want people, I want, uh, to leave a room and be like: "That Shubh, he's a real Brown Marvel."
Keri: He's a...
Shubh: No?
Keri: I don't, I, I don't think I'm gonna comment on that.
Shubh: Yeah. Uh, we
just, yeah.
Um, Kari, we just met. You and Philip know each other. Yeah. Um-
Philippe: That's... I was gonna ask if you guys knew each other- Yeah. No, we,
Keri: we
Philippe: met- Or... Yeah ... on the
Keri: farm
Shubh: Well, we did have a brief, uh, we had a brief, uh, uh, uh... I've started doing qualifying calls with guests that I
don't know- Oh, good
yet,
You know, you know
why.
Yeah. Uh, um, [00:02:00] but you were like: "Oh, yeah, I know Philip," and you still agreed to do this.
Keri: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here. Well, that's mostly why I agreed to do it.
Shubh: Oh. Yeah. You don't have to say that. I'm gonna- Yeah. I'm gonna edit that out. I'm gonna, I'm gonna... Do you know what that's gonna sound like in the playback?
It's like: "Uh, uh, in spite of that, I agreed to do this." That's, but it'll be like a-
Philippe: It'll be your voice. "In spite of that." Yeah. Um, but you, uh, uh, you spoke on a panel that, that we were hosting a while ago. Yeah. And then I was like: "You gotta come do this podcast." Yeah. I think. So, yes, you
Keri: did. '
Philippe: Cause
Keri: I have a lot of terrible ideas.
Amazing.
Philippe: Yeah.
Keri: You know? That's
Shubh: amazing.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Um, you know, we don't spend a lot of time on this, but, uh, you know, maybe for the folks that don't know you a little bit, uh, you know, tell us a bit about yourself.
Keri: Who am I?
Shubh: Yeah, well, I don't think we have that much. Yeah. Who I was
Keri: born... No, I'm kidding. Yeah. Um- Yeah.
Yeah, so I, I'm a, a born and raised, uh, Calgarian.
Shubh: Wow.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Okay.
Keri: I grew up in Longview. Yeah. Uh, my parents were farmers, which is, like, hilarious as we get into this idea- Okay ... that I'm gonna pitch you later. Okay. Because I feel like- Yeah, because,
Shubh: is it burning farms? No, I'm just kidding.
Keri: Yeah. Burning farms.
Yeah. [00:03:00] Um-
Shubh: No, I just thought, I thought maybe there
Philippe: was some, like, you know, like some-
Keri: But-
Shubh: Anyway.
Keri: But what's, but what's, like, kind of funny about that is, like, you know, I was picking rocks and- Yeah ... baling hay and doing all those things, so it's like, how did you get into industrial AI software?
.
Keri: Like, a bit of a leap, right?
Which is what I think is just kind of funny about our province and-
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah ...
Keri: you know? It's, it's wild.
Shubh: Well, how did you get into industrial AI software at a time where, I mean, now everybody's in AI something- Totally ... but you were, uh, ahead of the curve, I would say. Yes?
Keri: Yeah. A little bit ahead of the curve.
So Blue Marvel was actually started as a joint venture- Yeah ... uh, between AltaML and Spartan Controls.
Shubh: Yeah. So for the non-tech crowd out there, AltaML, um, I'm gonna say like a big AI incubator sort of- Totally ... right? Here in- Applied AI. Yeah ... here based in Calgary?
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Uh- Uh,
Keri: Edmonton.
Shubh: Edmonton. That's
Keri: right.
Shubh: Based in Edmonton. Yeah. I knew that.
Keri: Shit.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Come on. I'm gonna take that out.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Uh, based in Edmonton. Spartan Controls based in Calgary.
Keri: Based in Calgary,
Shubh: yeah. Uh, like oil and gas [00:04:00] controls company.
Keri: Yep.
Shubh: Controls-
Keri: Industrial automation ...
Shubh: industrial automation. Yeah. Yeah. Controls, uh, uh, folks out there, that was like,
you see
people, uh, in like a room, and there's some switches and dials.
Keri: A lot of switches and dials.
Philippe: Okay.
Shubh: Yeah. They used to be actual switches and dials, and now they're on the computer machines.
Keri: That's correct. Yeah.
Philippe: I went up to, uh, s- uh, s- Christina Lake SAGD Yeah.
Keri: Yep
Philippe: Uh, so Nova's a SAGD facility there. Would, would Spartan or Blue Marvel, would you guys have anything to do with that or?
Keri: Yeah, absolutely. Really? Yeah. So any like, uh, continuous process facility, uh, that's where our software shines, right? Yeah. So we-- You can kind of think of us as like a recommending engine, uh, for the operator as well as the executive to figure out how to better manage the facility. Yeah So.
Shubh: Uh, one of my really good friends was very early at MatriCon.
Yes. So I know a little bit about this space. Who was your
Keri: friend?
Shubh: Uh, I don't know if I should say his name. You don't have to say his name. I got two friends. I'll tell him that. Okay. But- I'll tell
2_BOARDkeri: him
Shubh: that.
Philippe: Why,
Keri: why not? Okay, but MatriCon- Did he get fired? So we have some MatriCon people too. [00:05:00] Yeah. Um, and the joke is always, you know, the data was really hard to get- Okay
at the time of MatriCon. How,
Shubh: how long were those MatriCon people there?
Keri: Like real, like from the beginning.
Shubh: Okay. So just ask them if they knew Bob and Fletch.
Keri: Okay. Yeah.
Shubh: I will do that. I think if they, I suspect both of those guys had big enough personalities that everybody knew them.
Keri: Yeah. Yeah. So we, we've got some, we've got some MatriCon talent- Yeah.
Yeah ... on the team, and yeah. So it's, uh, it's pretty cool because- Bought by
Shubh: Honeywell, right?
Keri: Bought by Honeywell. Yeah.
Shubh: That's right. See? Isn't it fun? MatriCon got bought by- I sound like, you know, you said Mark Le Dain is your co-host who knows everything.
Keri: Yeah. Look at the,
He's
got all the facts.
Shubh: Yeah. He's got all the facts. Suck it, Mark.
Philippe: So, but what were you doing before, uh, uh, Blue Marvel?
Keri: Yeah. Uh, I mean, before Blue Marvel, uh, this is like completely random. I've had many careers, which is probably why it's better- Yeah ... to just be an entrepreneur. Okay. Um, rather than like hopping around to like 18 different jobs, but-
Shubh: Yeah, I, I just have-
Keri: Oh
Shubh: my gosh
a, a bunch of different careers right now at the same time.
Keri: Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:00] I like to do that too. Yeah. It's like, yeah, focus on nothing and try all of it at once and like- Yeah. Let's, let's see how that goes. That's
Shubh: right. I think that's what a lot of the business books say.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. F- Stop-
Keri: Don't focus on anything.
Yeah. Stop- Start a thousand things. Stop
Shubh: focusing so much.
Keri: Yeah. Don't focus
Shubh: at all. What if you focus, but you focused on everything?
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. That should be the title of your business
Keri: book. Yeah. And then you can like whine about being stressed.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Which is- Sorry, why cut you off? But what, what, uh, what were you doing before, uh- Yeah
you were in industrial automation AI? I-
Keri: immediately before that, I was, uh, working at the Center for Affordable Water and Sanitation Technology. Whoa. Clearly named by an engineer. Yeah. No offense to engineers out
Shubh: there. Right. Well, you know, did you guys know I'm an engineer?
Philippe: Whoa, you got the ring? I don't wear it.
Oh.
Shubh: Yeah. Why? But, uh, it, I-- You wanna know why? Yeah. Uh, I, what it would wash my face, forget I was wearing it and scratch my face. Yeah. And so I stopped wearing it in, like, 2008.
Keri: It's like a, that's a very practical reason not to wear it. Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah. A very engineering reason, that's
Keri: what it is. Yeah. I'm, I'm not an engineer- Yeah
but we employ [00:07:00] many engineers.
Shubh: So you were at the Center for Affordable Water and?
Keri: Sanitation Technology.
Shubh: Okay.
Keri: So there's actually, like, a really interesting guy in Calgary that invented the slow sand water filter.
Shubh: Oh, cool.
Keri: Um, which is for household water treatment. And so you can essentially pour fecally or bacterially contaminated water into it.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Um, and it comes out clean, and you can drink it. So in developing countries where there's no piped water-
...
Keri: Uh, and no sanitation, like, meaning no flushable toilets- ... uh, you can have one of these filters in your home, um, pour water into it, and then, uh, be a little bit healthier.
Shubh: Um- Yeah. Wow. Again, I don't wanna be that guy that keeps saying, "Hey, I can, I have, uh, friends that where this is relatable."
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Uh, but I have a very good friend of mine. Yeah. Um, one of my closest friends, he worked for the World Bank-
Keri: Mm-hmm ...
Shubh: and then worked, uh, internationally on development projects.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: And was in Southeast Asia or and, um, eventually, um, spun off this company called Happy Tap, which was a [00:08:00] portable sanitation for, like, where there is no water.
Because, like, as you obviously knew from your background, one of the Um, biggest cause of disease was just the inability, , to have proper hand hygiene. Yep. And there was no running water. So it's all the things we take for granted. So- Uh-huh ... it was this, like, little portable hand washer.
Keri: Cool.
Shubh: Uh, this Jeff,
Rev-- I will say that
Jeff Revell is, uh, who you remind me of when I was in my 20s.
Like, he would've been my Phil- Oh, really? ... when I was in my 20s, yeah. Always, like, could walk into a room and then always had the craziest stories where people would be like, "That guy's full of shit." And I'd be like, "You know, it's, it's actually, that's actually what happened."
Philippe: It's a very nice way of saying Shubh thinks that a lot of people think I'm full of shit.
Shubh: Yeah, but I know, but I know that you're not, right? And that's what's important.
Philippe: Yeah, exactly.
Keri: Yeah, and that's what's important.
Shubh: Oh, and everybody lo- But he knows you're
Keri: not.
Shubh: Yeah. Right. Everybody loves Jeff, too. It's the same thing with Phil, where they're like, "Oh, Phil's so great." I'm like, "Yeah, I get it." Like, my wife was like, "Oh, Phil's so funny on this pod-" And he really makes the podcast work.
And I was like, "Huh? He [00:09:00] really makes it?" Interesting. I think you meant we. Uh, uh, yeah. Uh, uh, so that is a really cool background. Um-
Keri: But the, so the connection though- ... is that before large language models, because we were working in so many different countries around the world, like, our whole idea at Costa was to teach a man to fish, right?
Yeah. Like, we don't wanna build the infrastructure. We wanna teach people how to build it themselves- Yep ... 'cause you can make these- Yep ... water filters with, like, local products. Um, and so I reached out to Amy, and I said, like, the Alberta machine. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Not Amy, a
Shubh: person
Keri: yet. Yeah, not Amy the person.
Yeah. Um, and I said, "Hey, like, do you have any ML engineers or people that could support in helping translate these materials into all these various languages?"
Shubh: Yep.
Keri: Um, and so that was sort of my first foray, um, into that side of- Wild ... the technology world. And they were like, "Yeah, like, we could totally do this."
And then I met Corey and Nicole- Yep ... um, at AltaML because we were partnering up there, and they're like, [00:10:00] "Hey, like, come work for us." Yeah. "Like, we've got a lot of really good ideas. We need a chief of staff." And so I hopped over to AltaML, um, was the chief of staff. I went through, like, sort of the scale-up of the business in the early stages, and then I took over the venture studio.
Uh, so- Like, I mean, the Janssens are awesome people.
Shubh: Yep.
Keri: They're nuts in terms of, like, doing a thousand things. Yeah,
Shubh: yeah,
Keri: yeah. So we decided in a startup we should start startups.
Shubh: Yeah, of course.
Keri: Yes. Why wouldn't you? Yeah. Of course. It makes perfect sense. Yeah. So Blue Marvel was one of those- Yeah ... uh, startups at the time.
Um, so I went over to, to run it, and then, uh, eventually it got fully bought out by Spartan. Uh, so I went over there to do that. Yeah. And so for the last five years, I've been building and scaling Blue Marvel. So yeah. Super
Shubh: cool. That's a actually very, very cool background, like- It's a weird
Keri: journey, right?
Shubh: Yeah. But it's-- You came to AI honestly.
Keri: Yeah, I did. Yeah,
Shubh: yeah.
Keri: I did.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Uh, well, uh, and not fully honestly. Yeah. Because, um- Oh ... one of our very lovely board members [00:11:00] at the time at Cost, he was like, "You know, Carrie, you have a big heart."
Shubh: Yeah. "
Keri: You wanna do, like, good work for people." He's like, "I'm gonna be real with you.
Go and make some money and give it away if you actually wanna make a difference." And I was like, "Wow."
Yeah.
Shubh: Like- Yeah,
Like-
Keri: Whoa ...
Shubh: your time-
Keri: Yeah ...
Shubh: is meaningless- Like- ... in terms of actually making an impact.
Keri: Totally.
Shubh: Um, that's an interesting, uh, framing on philanthropy.
Keri: So I said, "Okay." Yeah. "I quit." Yeah. "And I'm gonna go work over here."
And he loved it. Wow.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: Nice.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: That's so cool.
Keri: To, to, to be fair- Yeah ... I haven't made the money yet to
Shubh: give it away. Yeah, none of us
us have, yeah.
Philippe: Right.
Keri: So
Philippe: yeah. We'll, we'll get there.
Shubh: Oh, yeah. Like, uh- Yeah ... um,
s-
me and so many people in my network are what I like to call, um- Like virtually wealthy, you know?
Like, you know, the money exists in the ether.
Keri: Yes.
Shubh: Just not in your pocket.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: It's definitely not in-
Shubh: One day, though
Keri: pocket.
Shubh: One day, though.
One day everybody we know-
Keri: Right ...
Shubh: [00:12:00] will, all of our friends will be on jets, all of our startup friends.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah. I'm sure.
Shubh: And they'll invite us, invite us on those jets.
Keri: Yeah.
Or, or I'll be living in my parents' basement with my kids.
Philippe: Right.
Keri: You know?
Shubh: Yeah. But you still have a jet, hopefully. No? Yeah,
Keri: yeah.
Shubh: You just maybe move-
Keri: Or a friend with a jet.
Shubh: You move back. Yes. That's it. I've always wanted a billionaire friend.
Keri: Yeah.
Exactly.
Shubh: uh, none of my friends are billionaires.
Keri: No, me either.
Philippe: Really?
Keri: It's been tough.
Shubh: Maybe Phil's got a chance. He's still- He's still pretty young.
Philippe: I'm gonna... Yeah, I do have some friends in that category.
Keri: Yeah, there's still a chance for you. Huh.
Shubh: Well, okay.
Philippe: But, but they haven't invited me on the jet.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah. So they're not friends. You got- I
Philippe: don't know if they're that, we're
Shubh: that close.
You're describing acquaintances.
Philippe: Friends.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah.
Keri: A target list.
Shubh: Yeah, that's right.
Keri: An ICP.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah. You have met people.
Philippe: No, that's...
Shubh: I was at a, I was at a resort recently in Nova Scotia, and there's a private jet runway there. Yeah. And I was telling everybody about it and taking pictures and stuff, and they were like, "Holy shit."
I was like... So just to be clear, I flew [00:13:00] commercial into Halifax and rent- And saw it ... rented a Dodge SUV- Right ... to take me and my family to this, to this, to this resort.
Philippe: Was this the golf resort?
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Cabot?
Shubh: Uh, this was Fox Harbor, yeah. Fox
Philippe: Harbor.
Shubh: Fancy. The, the
Fox Harbor. Fancy. The, the founder of
Tim Hortons, uh- Okay ... founded that. Um, but my point is, uh, it was like, "Oh, God, it'd be really nice to have a friend with a jet.
We could just fly out here and play golf for a couple days- Right ... and come back." Totally. But, so any friends out there You get some private jet money
Keri: Let me know ...
Shubh: other than Phil's friends who obviously have all the private jet money and just haven't, you know-
Keri: Sure. ... clearly
Shubh: just probably haven't
Keri: taken a trip in a while, otherwise Phil
Shubh: would obviously have-
Philippe: Right,
Shubh: exactly
been on said jet.
Philippe: I would've been there.
Shubh: Do you have keys to one of their places in like- Yeah ... in Colorado or something, or in- I totally don't ... Maui? No, you don't have... Did they tell you- I obviously
Philippe: don't have the keys,
Shubh: but- Did they tell you which rock the key is in at their place in, you know, in Bal- in Bali?
No? They don't-
Philippe: No, but I'm, you know, I, but, uh-
Shubh: What about the, the boat in the Maldives? You know how to operate a boat, do you? Do you know that? The yacht, do you know how to do that? Yeah.
Philippe: The yacht. [00:14:00] Yeah. I, I think they like... I can't get a You
Keri: could order the snacks, right?
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah,
Shubh: that's right. Yeah, I could order
Philippe: some snacks.
Yeah. I'd be happy to. Yeah. Yeah. Anything, you know.
Shubh: The funniest thing about me making fun of him is I'm like 50% sure in like six months I'm gonna get a picture from him. He's probably, "Hey, guess where I am?" "
Keri: I'm in
Shubh: Morocco." Yeah. "I'm on a yacht."
Keri: Yeah. "
Shubh: Well, it's a bit rough taking the chopper out."
Keri: Yeah. Got a little seasick, you know?
Shubh: Yeah, yeah. But like- Yeah ...
Keri: it's
Shubh: been fine. Shubh, you ever been on a, a chopper before? "Uh, well, yeah, I guess." Have you ever landed one on a boat? Fuck. No.
Keri: No.
Philippe: Did you... Okay,
Shubh: yeah. Then he's just gonna send me this, the clip from this episode.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: It's a faux pas. I can tell you some story w- when we're off, but it's, it's uncouth to talk about it now.
You can
Shubh: tell us some stories about being on a private jet?
Philippe: No, no, no. But, uh, uh-
Shubh: About rich people?
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Oh, yeah. Okay. I'd like... We should have a... We-- I just had two separate podcast ideas so far today. VCs come on and tell us the worst ideas they've ever heard. That's probably been done, but I like this one: stories about rich people.
Like obfuscated [00:15:00] stories about rich people.
Keri: Yeah, totally. Can't be identified.
Shubh: Well, like, uh, like Carrie pointed out correctly, I think probably many of us are rich adjacent.
Keri: Rich adjacent.
Shubh: So we
tell- Yeah ... some
stories about rich people.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: And none of the rich people are gonna be like, "Oh, they're talking about me," 'cause what if the story's bad?
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: If you told a story about a rich person pooping their pants at a party, they're not gonna be like, "You can't talk about that story." You know what I mean?
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Who's gonna wanna cop to that?
Keri: I mean, I wouldn't.
Shubh: Yeah. I mean, I definitely have never... Just for the record, I'm gonna look right at the ca- I've never pooped my pants at a party.
Not as an adult.
Hi, everybody. It's Shubh here. Are you a startup founder or a scale-up exec that's trying to take your company to the next level? Are you looking for the right people to help you do it? Are you looking for people who will help you set culture, who have deep domain expertise, who can figure anything out, who are Swiss Army Knives and unicorns?
How are you finding those people? Are you juggling multiple job boards? Are you screening hundreds of resumes, doing dozens of interviews? Is it [00:16:00] working? I bet it's not. Are you frustrated? I bet you are. Do you know how I know that? Because once upon a time, I was you. Then I discovered the New Network.
Jennifer Wiens and her team at the New Network help Canadian tech companies build and scale high-performance teams through a proven unique approach to recruitment and executive search. Also, they're awesome. I used them to help build most of my team at ZayZoon, and I would use them again, and I've recommended them to everyone that I know.
Check out newnetwork.ca for more details. The New Network: I couldn't have done it without them.
Philippe: Ladies and gentlemen, we got a new sponsor
Shubh: Center Nine the number nine.com. So Center the number nine.com but not written center the number nine. Center- Center l- Nine.
Speaker 2: Nine.
Shubh: Yeah. But not N-I-N-E. That's a better way to describe it. Centernine.com, not [00:17:00] N-I-N-E.
Philippe: That's not a better way.
That's not a better way.
Speaker 2: No, that's a much more confusing way to
Speaker 3: describe it.
Do, uh, think they're immediately regretting sponsoring this
Speaker 2: podcast? Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: right. My friends Riz Kazam and Clint Phillips, they run a Microsoft consulting shop. They are two former technical consultants who got tired of watching enterprises and companies overpay for bad Microsoft 365 work and built their own consultancy.
I've worked with a number of clients over the last six months. It's remarkable the number of early-stage companies that use Microsoft and use Teams, and it takes them days, weeks to get stuff set up for us. So you know what? Uh, call Clint, call Riz, call Center Nine. They can do, uh, Microsoft 365 security, Identity, Copilot adoption, uh, AI compliance, M&A migrations.
They're a small team, deep expertise, no fluff.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Did you like how I said, "No fluff"?
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's great.
Speaker 3: So, uh, if your organization is navigating any of these things, reach out to them on [00:18:00] LinkedIn. Uh, go to their website. Uh, you know what? You can, you can DM me. I'll put you in touch with them.
Speaker 2: Center Nine-
Speaker 3: Yeah
Speaker 2: .com.
Speaker 3: I've known Riz for a long time. I see him at the gym all the time. He's in good shape, too.
Speaker 2: Is he?
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in good shape. Takes care of himself. So you know if somebody takes care of himself that way-
Speaker 2: Uh-huh ...
Speaker 3: he's gonna take care of your Microsoft 365 needs.
Speaker 2: Boom.
Speaker 3: Boom. Reach out to them on LinkedIn. Uh, reach out to me.
I'll connect you with them. Go to their website, Center Nine, not N-I-N-E .com Center, the number nine.
Speaker 2: So it's centernine, not N-I-N-E .com. Centernine.com.
Speaker 3: And, uh, we're gonna put that in the show notes. They're good guys. They're gonna do a good job
Shubh: Uh, so anyway, Carrie, with that, thank you for that background.
Keri: Yeah. You're welcome.
Shubh: Uh, obviously, uh, a really cool background, um, early in AI, certainly in this province, uh, kind of at the, one of the AI hubs in the province. Yeah. Was doing AI, well, I guess ML. [00:19:00] ML. Yeah.
Keri: Like let's back up, right?
Shubh: Uh, b- but before it was cool.
Keri: Before it was cool, yeah.
Shubh: Um, uh, but you're not really here to talk about any of that.
Keri: No.
Shubh: You're here to pitch Philippe and I a business idea.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: I'm quite excited to hear Philippe's reaction to this idea- Okay ... 'cause you gave me- You heard some of it? You, you gave me a preview.
You know I don't like to hear them, but, uh, again, Karen and I didn't know each other. And then she, you know, I was just, just making sure. Um, and then I li- I think you, like, got, like, a minute in. I was like, "Okay, stop talking."
Keri: Like, no more.
Shubh: Yeah. I'm ready. No more
Keri: details.
Shubh: But, uh- All right ... yes, Karen, we would love to hear your business idea-
Keri: Okay
Shubh: for "Your Business Is On The Line."
Keri: Okay. So it's called Bootstraps.
Philippe: Okay.
Keri: Okay?
Shubh: Yep.
Keri: So it's got, like, a couple meanings to that. Yeah. And it ties in a little bit to rich people, and it ties in a little bit to, like, growing up as, like, a farm kid. So- Yeah.
Shubh: Oh, you really tied these threads together. Well done.
Keri: Okay.
Okay.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: So it could be, like, the meaning of, like, pull it up by your bootstraps. [00:20:00] Yeah. You know?
Which is-
is, like, probably something my dad, like, said to me often. Yeah. One benefit of, like, being a girl, I usually got to, like, drive the truck. I didn't have to, like, pick the rocks. Right. Um- Oh, that's nice
like, my brothers had to do that shit.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Um, so that wasn't really, like, my job. But the whole point about Bootstraps is that I think that there is a market for people who are quite wealthy- Yeah ... who are trying to raise well-rounded children, and are very concerned about them knowing what a hard day's work actually is.
Yes. Okay?
Philippe: Whoa.
Keri: So just... 'Cause they have everything, right? Like you- Yeah. And, and they wanna give their kids everything, and they should. Um, I mean, if, if I could do that, I would send my kids to all of the best things- Yeah ... because you want the best for your kids, right? Yeah. Um, and we all fall into those marketing things.
I'm like, "I'll never be the mom that, like, buys the UPPAbaby- Yeah ... and the $800 car seats." It's like, "This is the safest one." And I'm like, "Okay. Well, let's get [00:21:00] it." Right. You know? And so I think the same applies, um, if you have the wealth, you wanna give your kids every opportunity. But what's difficult in that is where are you gonna pick rocks?
Philippe: Right.
Keri: Or, like, where are you gonna- Yes ... scrape a fence-
Philippe: Right ...
Keri: and paint it?
Philippe: How are you gonna cosplay as poor? Yeah.
Keri: Like, like, like a little bit.
Philippe: Right. Right. Yeah.
Keri: So, okay, so this idea came to me because, one, like, my father always loved the physical labor for us as kids. Like, it could be picking up sticks in the woods, picking up rocks in the field-
Shubh: Yeah
Keri: moving hay bales by hand.
Shubh: There's also a lot of now, like- Yeah ... data that says doing that kind of thing or doing physical chores as a kid-
Keri: Yeah ...
Shubh: like, is a excellent predictor of, like- A, a successful adult
Keri: And like childhood trauma
Shubh: Yeah. Well, that too. Yeah. Yeah. We all get it. Yeah. We talked about how much I hate gardening the other day.
Philippe: Right. '
Shubh: Cause my dad was a botanist. Anyway. A botanist. Yeah, yeah. Like such- Yeah. Yeah, but yes, continue. [00:22:00] Yeah, sorry. Right? Yeah, yeah.
Keri: Yeah, so- Yeah ... so the premise of the idea came to me because we have a, a, like a family cabin, um, down in Montana. Hadn't been there in two years, well, 'cause startup life. Yeah.
Like you just never take a vacation. And so I went down there with my kids and my dad, and the very first week it was like, "Well, we gotta do jobs." Yeah.
Philippe: So many jobs.
Keri: So many jobs. Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. How old are your kids, do you mind me asking? They're five. Yeah.
Keri: I have twin five-year-olds. Yeah.
Philippe: No way. Yeah. Uh,
Keri: boys or
Philippe: girls?
Keri: Boy and a girl.
Shubh: Yeah. Boy and a girl. Yeah. So they've just to the point they can start to lift some things.
Keri: Like-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Keri: barely.
Shubh: Yeah, but- You know ... well, not after that week I'm sure. I know. Like, yeah.
yeah.
Keri: They're like, "Can we ride our bikes?" Yeah. It's like, "Yeah, right after you-"
Shubh: Yeah "...
Keri: rake up all the grass."
Shubh: Right after you put your bike together.
Right.
I,
I spent all night- Yeah ... taking it apart, yeah.
Keri: Just so you can put it-- You gotta help me change the oil. That's right, yeah. We were like, "Oh my gosh."
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: So the first week was jobs. Like- Yeah ... we stained the deck. We had to knock down all the wasp nests. Like we had to fill cracks. Yeah. We had to fix the step.
Like there's a dirt pile, which like my dad loves a dirt pile.
Shubh: [00:23:00] Yeah.
Keri: It's like, "Let's move the dirt pile from here to here." It's like- I
Shubh: love your dad's- Why? ... whole thing.
Keri: Like, "Here's a dead tree, let's cut it down." Yeah. Like, why don't we just wait for it to fall over? No. Like we need to do all of these jobs.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: So it wasn't a holiday. It was a lot of work. And I'm like, "You know what? It, it would be great if you could just get like a TaskRabbit-" "... type person to come and support this so that you could actually like enjoy some of this stuff." . Right? Um, and so I don't know if you guys have ever used TaskRabbit.
Have you? I have,
Shubh: yeah.
Keri: Yeah? What did you use it for?
Shubh: Uh, somewhat hilariously, the first time I used it was during COVID.
Keri: Okay.
Shubh: We were trying to get a laptop across town to a new employee at ZayZoon.
Keri: Okay.
Shubh: And I drove one to one of our employees. Mm-hmm. And then I was like, "Uh, you're running Go to market and revenue at this company that's trying to grow exponentially.
You should not be in the car for an hour and a half dropping off a laptop at someone's house. So then the next day I had TaskRabbit do it, and then one other time I had the TaskRabbit folks help me move a couch up the stairs.
Keri: [00:24:00] Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Oh,
Philippe: that's great.
Shubh: Right. Yeah. And like they're happy to do it. 'Cause, uh, unlike Philippe, I don't have a lot of friends.
Keri: Right. Yeah. You gotta pay.
Yeah.
Shubh: Well, also my friends are old, so it's very risky. When you ask another 46-year-old to carry a couch-
Keri: Correct ...
Shubh: what you're basically saying is: "Hey, come hurt yourself." Yeah.
Keri: Come book an
Shubh: appointment with your friend's kid. Actually, what, can you come help me move furniture? No, wait, just cut out the middleman.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Just let me punch you as hard as I can in the back. You know? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. So I have used- So- I have used TaskRabbit, yes.
Keri: You've used TaskRabbit. Yeah. So this is the inversion of TaskRabbit. I love this idea so much. So I wanna create a marketplace where you have access to all of these wealthy families-
Shubh: Yeah
Keri: that want to show their kids a hard day's worth of work.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: And so myself as a, you know, I have a bunch of jobs to do. I want to enjoy my cabin. I don't want to stain the deck- Yeah ... personally. Uh, I have to do it, but if there's somebody out there that wants to pay me to have their child do it, and I'll observe it, [00:25:00] um, and make sure they do a good job and teach them some lessons- Yeah
and they get a good experience, then wouldn't they be interested in doing that? 'Cause they wanna do everything else for their kids, so don't they wanna show their kids what a hard day's worth of work is
Philippe: like?
Shubh: Getting calluses on those hands. Well, it was great 'cause- Yeah ... I was always assumed, Philippe, that you were like a bougie, you know, uh, soft child.
Then you told me how you built your own f- and stained all your own furniture. Yeah. So then you wouldn't probably be the target demographic. But what you, you just said you got a lot of, you got a lot of, you got a lot of rich friends. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think your rich friends would think about this idea?
Philippe: I, um- It, it, it's interesting. I feel like, um, a lot of my, like, uh, uh... I, I, I got a few friends that I think when they were growing up, they would like-- I think it makes maybe a bit more sense as like a camp.
Keri: It could be a camp.
Philippe: Oh. Like where someone get the bootstrap camp. Oh,
Oh, yeah. Like where someone get the bootstrap camp,
And it's like a one-week immersive experience where you're just like in the [00:26:00] fields.
Yeah. Yeah. You're picking rocks. Picking fruits. Digging holes. Yeah.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: You're, you're, you're do- yeah, you're digging holes and you're just like- Cutting grass. I think putting
Shubh: a fence up has to be the best version of this. With like a post pounder. You get to dig holes. You gotta- Yeah. You gotta use a drill.
Yeah. You gotta stain. Yeah, yeah.
Philippe: Yeah, I think, I think that would make a ton of sense. Fence camp. Yeah, because I got so many friends that like, man, they've never seen a, a hard day's work in their life. Yeah. You know? They just walk around in white pants all the time.
Keri: Yeah. You know? Like no boat shoes. Like- Yeah.
it comes with like gloves.
Philippe: Right.
Keri: You know? But like I like this idea of like a camp. Ah. And you could maybe earn some badges.
Philippe: Yeah.
Keri: Right? Like a little bit like a Brownies, Scouts sort of scenario. Yeah. And it's like- But Scouts but useful, you know what I mean?
Shubh: Scouts but useful.
Keri: Yeah. Yeah.
Shubh: I-- So, um,
Philippe: I- And, and you, you mix in a couple real hardos, like real, uh, in the- Hardcore.
Hardcore. Hardcore- Like ringers ... work hands who are like in there.
Shubh: But wouldn't that be the counselor?
Philippe: The counselor would be too, but I think they gotta get like the grit of like even when they're in-
Keri: Yeah ...
Philippe: in the bed, [00:27:00] there's like- Yeah ... one person in there who's like constantly making fun of them. And like that would be Barry.
Shubh: Who grew up on a
Keri: farm, who's up at 5:00 AM. That would be my dad.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah.
Philippe: Right.
Keri: Like yelling at them. Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah,
Keri: yeah. You know? Like, and they're just like- Yeah ... "What is happening right now?" Yeah. And the parents are checking in every day, and they're like, "Good. Yeah, this is good." Yes. "We like this." A little
Shubh: bit of adversity.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: This is how the other side lives. I
Shubh: really, really, really like this idea. So, you know, I also have, uh, uh, a lot of friends that have done okay. We often talk about how maybe our kids are-
Keri: Gonna be
Shubh: weird ... and it's not like, you know, uh, I grew up in the city. It's not like... But, you know. Yeah. We had to do hard work.
Um, and then I would tell stories like I was like, uh, you know, I wanted a, a street hockey net from Canadian Tire that was $40.
Keri: Right.
Shubh: And so I would like do these odd, like odd jobs around the house or deliver to back up my buddy's paper route so I could save the $40. Took me like three months, and when I bought that net, I was like, "That felt good."
Feels
Keri: good.
Shubh: And then now my kids, because we're in a different, you know, position than, say, my [00:28:00] immigrant parents were, like we, you know, they can kind of get whatever they... Like not whatever, but like a, a lot of the stuff that they want. Let's be honest. So I was like- Yeah ... I thought about this a lot. I'm like, physical work- Mm-hmm I love it.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Like I made my daughter, my oldest daughter, last summer when I was building like an app, I made her test it.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: And she was like, "I tested a little." I was like, "No, I need to see like your, your list of things you tested, and then I, I will pay you 10 bucks per bug you find."
Keri: Yep.
Shubh: QA test. Um, and again, that was not- Wow
that was not digging ditches in the backyard, but at least it was like, okay, I gotta do some hard work.
Keri: But I love what you're doing with your kids. Yeah. So I follow him on LinkedIn.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Yeah. Like the press-on nails and like the
Shubh: little businesses. Yeah, and just to be clear out there to everybody. Yeah.
'Cause I've, I think a few people out there have been like, "Shubh's making his children do this." I just wanna be clear about this. I'm gonna look at the camera again. I am not forcing my children to do hard
Keri: labor. See, but bootstraps would [00:29:00] be forced.
Shubh: Yes. Yeah. So my kids have come to bootstraps- Yeah ... honestly.
Like when my... I, I told Philippe this story already about my, my daughter who's got the crochet business, she threw it up there and like a bunch of our, my friends and our friends bought stuff, including Philippe. It was really kind of everybody.
Keri: That's nice.
Shubh: And then immediately she was like, "I have 14 orders.
Each of these takes me..." Especially the bigger piece, like some of the bigger pieces take her like a week of crocheting. And she got that look. My hands. You know, we've all, all of us who have done startups have had that look where like you get that like euphoric look when, you know, you close the deal, and then you close a thr- a few, three more deals, and then suddenly your, your, your euphoric look goes from euphoria to like-
Keri: Uh-oh, dread
Shubh: just like, like, like I'm being squished by a giant rock. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, she's still doing it, but like- Yeah ... so this has been hard work. So- Yeah ... so they're kind of getting, I mean, it's the labor part, like they're painting and they're-
Keri: Yeah ...
Shubh: and they're creating. But there, there, I really love that there's a physical labor part to this- Yes
these job idea that they've had 'cause-
Keri: Yes ...
Shubh: you can't just be like, "Oh yeah, fuck, I, [00:30:00] I fucking fintech'd something up," you know? Like it's like- Yeah, Claude
Keri: did
Shubh: it ... I had to build it- Yeah ... I think is a really cool thing. Yeah. So I am, and I've got lots of friends where I could like, who am I? I don't wanna call out my nieces and nephews here, but, uh, you know.
Send them to bootstrap. If I needed some help paint, if I needed some help painting a fence, I'd like to be able to call my- Yeah ... my nephew.
Keri: Yeah, exactly. Well, and like growing up, like-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Keri: all of the townies, we called them.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: I know, it's like a little bit derogatory. That's fine. But their parents- Yeah
which I was just actually out with a buddy last night at his engagement party, and he's like, "Your dad was the worst." Like, you know? Because like their parents would be like, "Oh, like bring Ryan out." Yeah. "Like let him paint the fence," right? Yeah. Like, or let him like do some of these jobs. Like people want their kids- Absolutely they do
to do
do this stuff.
Shubh: Yep.
Keri: But typically, like you as the project owner are the one paying, so how could you like reverse that- Yeah ... so that they're paying you to allow their kids to have this experience? I think
Shubh: Philippe's nailed how you can do this is the camp.
Philippe: The camp.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: The camp.
Shubh: [00:31:00] Like work camp, basically.
Keri: Yeah, work camp.
Shubh: I mean, we might
Keri: have
Shubh: to
Keri: workshop that name a
Shubh: little. Yeah. I,
Philippe: I had some friends who, who fell into this category. They, um- They, they tried to put themselves
this
and, and, um, go tree planting.
Keri: How
Shubh: did
Philippe: it
Keri: go?
Philippe: They lasted two days.
They lasted two days.
Shubh: Are,
Philippe: uh...
You don't have to name names.
They lost "Wolf
They lost Wolf of Wall Street
both times. Are, are your
Shubh: friends successful?
Philippe: Now?
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Uh, yeah.
Um, well-
Shubh: Uh.
Philippe: Uh. They are, they are. They're, um-
Shubh: Not as successful as they could be.
Keri: That's
Shubh: That's not-
Yeah.
Phil was being-- And
I'm
very proud
of
you. You're being super
diplomatic
there. But, uh-
Philippe: No,
no, my... So, so
one of those guys, um, just took over the
family business.
Mm.
They
run-
Shubh: Of course they did.
Philippe: Doing well, doing well. But he's doing, he's surpri- he's impressing
Shubh: me. Oh
my
God.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. I was
just saying to somebody yesterday, I was like, "Fucking-" Strong
Keri: leader.
Shubh: He's
too. I make
too. I make fun of
nepotism so much, although
it'd be
great if I
could
pass a [00:32:00] business on to my kids,
you know what I mean?
Like-
Keri: Oh, like,
Oh,
see,
this is it.
Shubh: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Philippe: yeah. Yeah. But it's actually a brilliant business. They run the Culligan franchise in Winnipeg.
Keri: Oh, wow.
Philippe: Which is like just the-
Keri: That's
2_BOARDkeri: a
Keri: big deal.
Shubh: Yeah.
So
he's hauling
water bottles.
Philippe: He's hauling some water.
Okay.
He had to
like
work on the ground floor.
Keri: Well,
Shubh: he's not. Yeah, yeah.
Philippe: He did, he did for
like
a couple
Shubh: days.
Two days. Couple, couple, couple days.
Keri: To learn the business. Philip's
Shubh: friend- Right.
we're just having some fun at your expense. I'm sure you're great. Just wanna be... I don't wanna get Phil in any trouble.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: But-
Keri: But.
Shubh: But.
Keri: We know
you're not
the Culligan Man coming to your house. Yeah,
Shubh: yeah. You're the man at the Culligan Man.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
The, you're
the,
you're the man the Culligan
Man is
working
for.
Keri: Correct.
Shubh: That's
right.
Keri: Correct.
Shubh: I,
though,
I think,
I
think you've actually honestly hit on something here. Okay. Because I think there is, uh... And it might not be like the, the, the super-ish wealthy even that- Yeah. But
I think
there's like upper middle class, like people whose kids are like...
You know, '
cause
n-now
it's kind of gotten into,
okay, my
kid has to do all these things
to
get into university.
They gotta be in-
They
gotta do [00:33:00] this instrument, they gotta do this thing, they gotta do debate. But it's all
like,
um-
Keri: Soft
skills.
Shubh: It's all soft shit.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: And
like
also, let's be honest, like some of those soft skills- Yeah ... are maybe, like you can kinda learn them in
a different,
more
effective way
now, right?
Yeah, yeah. Like, uh,
or
the hardest
skills like Excel I've-- And you know, you can get, you can get some help with that.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: I mean, uh, sure, the AI robots are gonna do some stuff, but they're not gonna be at everywhere fucking painting fences and digging holes. Well, but like- That's not gonna be the first application.
Keri: But let's like, if you're trapped on an island, it's like what good are those skills? Yeah.
Shubh: Excels. No, you draw a spreadsheet in the sand.
Keri: Yeah. You're like, "Okay, I'm gonna be- Yeah. And then you're like, "If I'm gonna-" ... the government." And you're like, "No one wants that guy." "
Shubh: I'm gonna write VLOOKUP tables in the sand."
Keri: Totally. It's like who can build a fire, a shelter, all the things. Yeah. It's like, well...
Philippe: We actually had, uh, um, s-some, some of our neighbors at our cabin, they, they came over the other day. Yeah. And, uh, they, they have three kids and, uh, they j- these three kids had just spent three weeks at the [00:34:00] cabin or two weeks at the cabin sailing, canoeing- Yeah
hanging out. Doing some
Shubh: real bougie shit. Love it. Yeah.
Philippe: And, and then they were gonna go spend a week on our same lake. There, there's a Camp Stevens, like YMCA camp, doing the same thing, and they're like, "I don't know why we're d- going." Like, you know- Yeah ... the kids were like, "We got all this stuff anyway." So I'm sure- We don't
Shubh: put our kids in summer, any camps in the summer.
Philippe: Right. But I'm sure these parents would li- they should've been like, "All right, we're gonna send you to work camp for the summer."
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah. Because the other problem
is, as
a parent, if you try to get your own kids to do it, they're like, "Meh."
Keri: 100%.
Shubh: But if they're at a camp...
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: I-- We gotta, we need a name for this camp.
Work camp sounds weird.
Keri: Work camp sounds like
Shubh: a
Keri: lawsuit.
Shubh: Yeah,
yeah.
Keri: It does. Like we need really good insurance for this also.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Bootstrap,
Philippe: I think.
Keri: Bootstrap.
Shubh: Bootstrap. Oh, yes, of course. You had the name for it. Boot- bootstrap. Bootstrap. Bootstrap
Keri: camp. But that- Yeah ... the camp needs a name. I agree.
Shubh: Camp
Keri: Cal-
Shubh: Camp Callous.
Keri: Camp Callous
Shubh: Camp
Callous is- That's kinda cool. That is. That sounds pretty good. Yeah. 'Cause you could also be a little callous.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: You know? You could have your dad's approach, which is like- [00:35:00] Yeah ... uh, Philippe, you'd be like, "Oh, I'm tired. My hands hurt." Little Philippe. Like, yeah. Not, you know, obvi- uh, "My hands hurt."
And he'd be like, "Oh, um, you know who else's hands hurt?" Uh, I don't know. I couldn't finish that one.
Philippe: The other one that would be a cool one would be like, uh, this would be sick, like a cattle drive.
Keri: Yes. Send
Shubh: your kids on a cattle
your kids on a cattle drive. Like, uh, "City
Slickers." Are you guys- Yeah ... are you guys remember, are you guys old enough to remember "City Slickers"?
Of course. Of
Philippe: course.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah, that's a great movie. Get
Keri: them on some horses.
Philippe: Get them on some horses. They gotta like- Yeah ... cook over the fire.
Shubh: Totally. Yeah. This, for the record, this is my fucking personal nightmare. Just, uh, so I'm out, but my kids love horses.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: So they-- or two of them. They go ride horses, but the trade-off is during the day they gotta scoop up some cow shit-
Keri: Absolutely
Shubh: and do whatever else-
Keri: Yeah ...
Shubh: you do. Do you
Philippe: scoop cow shit on a cattle
or
you just-
Shubh: Well, you could use it to make, uh, to, uh, do fires.
Philippe: Really?
Keri: Dry the patties, sure.
Shubh: Big time.
Philippe: You burn cow manure?
Keri: No, no.
Shubh: Not, well, she doesn't,
Keri: but
you know, people do. But we would on the drive. Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah,
Philippe: you would on the drive.
[00:36:00] Yeah, that's good.
mean.
Shubh: On
Philippe: the cattle
Shubh: drive.
Philippe: Yeah. On
Shubh: cattle drive. Yeah, maybe that's less cool now 'cause of, uh, climate change. But, uh, yeah, I love this idea. Guys, I actually genuinely love this idea.
Keri: Okay.
Shubh: Like, I'm not just saying I like the concept or the hilarity of this idea. I actually think this is a thing that needs, somebody out there needs to do.
Keri: I agree.
Shubh: And 'cause the camps even nowadays, it's like, okay, they go, um... Like, I mean, I was a fucking counselor at, at a camp when I was, uh- Ooh ... in university and high school. You're brave. It was a UN camp. So literally half the time these kids are doing Model UN, then we were- Yeah ... then we were canoeing and playing sports and all that stuff.
Put 'em to work. Yeah. No, but that's true. Put 'em to work. Yeah. I, and so like, if you could, in the, in the context of the UN camp, if you were like, "Hey," you were having an emergency securities council session, uh, there's this refugee camp, and there's this challenge, and
is a
water supply issue. Oh, guess what?
Instead of just debating it-
Keri: Yeah ...
Shubh: we're all gonna go fucking put in sand- We're gonna go dig ... sand. We're all gonna put in sand water filters. [00:37:00] Yeah. You're gonna learn how to fucking filter so that you can clean this water.
Keri: Totally. You're gonna go dig a septic field for this guy up here- Yeah ... who put in a project and needs it done.
Philippe: Boom.
Shubh: Yeah. That's actually
Philippe: great. '
Shubh: Cause that was like, uh, what, what w- in the US it was the Peace Corps, right? You'd go to like- Yeah ... places around the world- Yeah ... and literally, like physically work and do stuff. I love Camp Callous- Camp Callous ... brought to you by Bootstrapped.
Philippe: That's great. I like it. I like it a lot.
Yeah. Uh, should we rate it?
Shubh: I'm, uh, yeah, uh, yes.
Philippe: Uh, this is
Shubh: 75 salsa. This is 75- It's at the top of the score ... salsa. Hey. Yeah. Hey. This, this g- the, the, the What the fuck? The scale goes to 75 salsas. Okay. 'Cause the first, um, you might know this already, the first idea we ever had pitched on the podcast was an idea called Salsa Score.
Salsa
Keri: Score.
Shubh: Where you would score salsas, so you remembered which salsas you liked. Right. And then, uh, uh, so 75 was an arbitrary number. We don't give out many perfect scores.
Keri: Well, thanks guys. But
Shubh: this is [00:38:00] legitimately a perfect score.
Keri: Thank you.
Shubh: Like in bougie soft kids.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Get some calluses.
Keri: Yeah. And I'm gonna put my kids in it too, by the way.
Shubh: Well, it sounds like you kind of already are.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah, that's right.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Uh,
Philippe: do you have another idea or is, is that the only one?
Keri: Well, I mean, I also feel like you could have another level to this idea-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Keri: uh, for adults that- Oh. Oh ... didn't, that also- 100% ... didn't grow up with any skills. Yeah. And it's like you don't know how to do anything.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Like I can-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Keri: not to get into,
like,
my personal life- Yeah ... but I can remember,
like,
bringing boyfriends home.
Shubh: Yep.
Keri: And my dad would be like, "Okay." Oh, gosh. Yeah.
Like,
Shubh: Yeah
Keri: "You got boat shoes and a dress shirt on." Yeah. Like, "That's not gonna fly. Oh, you forgot gloves. No problem."
Shubh: Yeah. "
Keri: Uh, you're gonna come with me-"
Shubh: Oh
Keri: my
is
so awesome
for like the next two hours."
Shubh: I got three daughters. I'm
Keri: taking notes
Shubh: right
Keri: now. Yeah. "And like-" Yeah. "... you're gonna come with me. We're gonna do some jobs." Yep. "Like Carrie and Laura, my mom, are gonna make dinner. And when we're done doing [00:39:00] the work-" Yep "... uh, we'll come in and eat." I didn't have a lot of boyfriends.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: You know?
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Because of that.
Shubh: First date, that was it. Yeah.
Keri: Yeah. It's like, "Come meet my parents early." Like,
I'm
and- Yeah ... listen,
Shubh: I am not an exceptionally handy fella by any stretch of the imagination. But my dad at home would be like, "Hey, we're gonna replace the air exchanger on the furnace." 'Cause
Keri: how hard could it be?
Shubh: And I'd be like, "Why?" And he had this "Reader's Digest Do It Yourself" book- Exactly ... at home, 'cause it's obviously pre-internet. Yeah. So my dad would take on these projects at the, you know, they did the basement themselves and stuff. And it's like, you know... And so now, like, when I got my first condo, I was like, "I wanna do the kitchen floors."
And I didn't do a great job.
Keri: But you did it.
Shubh: But I did it. Yes. And then when we got the house, especially before kids, I was like, "I'm gonna do this stuff." But even,
like,
there's things now where I'm like, um, you know, change whatever. Change the door lock, like change, the door lock is broke, change the door lock, or replace this other thing.
Stuff that's within my capability.
Keri: But that's not even most people's capability.
Shubh: That's what I'm finding is like- Yeah ... people will be like, "Well, fuck. I don't know." I have
Keri: to hire somebody-
Shubh: Like, uh, I won't name- ... to do
Keri: [00:40:00] everything ...
Shubh: I won't name names, but, uh, one of my brother, uh, in-laws, who's incredibly talented and capable person and a brilliant person, but,
like,
their fence was falling down for a long time.
You know? I'm just saying. I don't wanna call him out.
Philippe: Yeah. '
Shubh: Cause I'm trying to get him on the pod 'cause, you know, he's got a play that's playing in six different cities right now. Um- Oh,
Philippe: cool ...
Shubh: and he was an ophthalmologist. Goddamn, he's talented. Um- Overachiever. Yeah. So maybe he didn't have time- Can't fix a goddamn fence though
yeah, but his fence was fucking leaning as fuck, right? Like, so I'm just like, just like- Let's fix it ... and every time I go over, I'm like,
I'd be like, "Why don't you just...
I could just, we could just, I mean, we could get after this for a day." Spend an afternoon. "We can knock this out." And be
Philippe: like- You know what I would like from adult camp is, um, well, I, I was thinking like chopping wood would be really fun.
Okay.
Shubh: Chopping wood would be so fun. Learn how to
Philippe: cut down a tree. Yeah.
Shubh: I think cutting down a tree would be- So fun ... I was reading, I was listening to a podcast, and they were talking about how these things are called rage rooms, where you can go in and just smash stuff with a baseball bat. A tree?
Keri: Right.
Shubh: Chopping down a tree? Apparently, if you touch-- I mean, I don't know if this applies if you're chopping the tree down, but if it's dead fall, that's fine. Yeah. But if you touch a tree, it's like [00:41:00] there's legitimately, again, like s- like research that says that,
like,
grounds you. So like- Yeah, that's true ... if you're in nature, you're chopping down a tree, fucking, you know, like people,
like,
do like fucking team building events where they go,
like,
clay shooting.
What if you went... Or fucking ax throwing. You go out to the fucking day camp, everybody gets a tree to chop down.
Philippe: You know what? Like I, okay, here, here's, here's what's up.
Shubh: This feels like a Tech Thursday thing.
Philippe: Yeah. Here's what's up. People pay right now for pottery classes.
Shubh: Yep.
Philippe: Yep. Painting classes.
Shubh: Yep.
Philippe: None of those have any interest to me.
Yeah. I would pay for chopping down tree class.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: Uh, changing my oil class.
Keri: Yes.
Philippe: Yeah. Uh, uh, uh, laying foundation.
Keri: Yes.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Uh, um, uh, uh, uh, putting in a window.
Shubh: Building a fence.
Philippe: Building a fence.
Shubh: You know what? Like putting your own patio in, 'cause every landscaper you come in does not do a great
job 'cause
it's just two kids who are learning how to fucking landscape on your dime. Right.
Keri: Exactly.
Philippe: I would-- Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I would, I would pay money, [00:42:00] um, to sit with a, a real tradesman for things I could learn-
Keri: Totally ...
Philippe: in, uh, two or three sessions, you know?
Keri: And
Philippe: then you could just
it home.
Yeah, just take it home.
Yeah. Like,
like-
Now I change all my own oil.
Keri: Exactly.
Shubh: Well, you- Yeah ... uh, to borrow one of your favorite phrases, you famously, uh, from actual, uh, tree wood built a table.
Philippe: Right.
Keri: That's cool.
Shubh: So you are well ahead of the curve here. There you go. But if people could go to a one-week camp You chop down a tree, then by the end of that week, you have made a piece of furniture out of that tree.
Be
Keri: awesome.
Philippe: That'd be so sweet.
Shubh: Whoa, that would be like-
Philippe: You mill it. Yeah, you put it in the kiln.
Shubh: I got a friend of mine, she goes to an ashram in Vernon, like a yoga retreat for a week, and I was like, "That sounds amazing. It's just not for me."
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: But I might go chop down a tree for a week.
Keri: Right?
Philippe: That'd be so sweet.
That'd be a great time. Should
Shubh: we do this?
Philippe: There's, uh, wh- where we have our cabin, there's, um, uh, uh, there used to be a prisoner of war camp- Really? ... for [00:43:00] Germans-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Philippe: of World War II. Oh,
Keri: boy.
Shubh: Yeah. That's why we can't use the term war camp.
Keri: Yeah. Yeah. That one's out. Yeah.
Yeah.
But
Philippe: they, but they,
but they,
um, arrested all these Germans.
Shubh: Yeah, internment camps.
Philippe: Brought, br-br... No, brought them to Lake of the Woods.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Had them chopping trees as lumberjacks.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Okay. And a lot of it, a lot of them loved it so much- Yeah ... that they just stayed.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: That they were like, "This is awesome."
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: And so they bought a little plot of land after the war and just stayed in Lake of the Woods.
Shubh: Hmm.
Philippe: Um, and so that's-
Shubh: And then there were those guys, uh, Berlin-ing the logs down the water from the cartoon.
Philippe: Yeah, the log drivers.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Um, yeah. So like, I think that'd be so
Shubh: fun. You guys impressed I knew the term Berlin-ing?
Keri: Yeah, like a little. Thanks. Yeah.
Philippe: I didn't even know that was a term. I thought-
Shubh: Well, when I was growing up, there was a little cartoon.
You, they go
Berlin-ing down
and down. What? And it was- Yeah ... like a log driver. Yeah.
Philippe: I've seen that cartoon, actually. Oh,
Shubh: you have? Okay.
Philippe: Because I, I fell in love with log driving videos at some point. Which is why you would
Keri: be perfect. I
Philippe: would
Shubh: love- Oh
love- Oh my
If you cut, [00:44:00] cut down stuff and then you had to log drive, this is like a cattle drive- Exactly
but for people who don't like animals, I'd be fucking down for to learn how to, like, log drive.
Keri: There's so many physical
jobs- It's
a dangerous game, though ... that need doing-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Keri: that people who have to do them don't wanna do. So how do we just get- Yeah ... people to pay to do the jobs 'cause they need the skills?
Shubh: Guys, okay. You know? There's definitely the, the, the teenager learn- Totally ... like get your hands dirty- Yeah ... and the parents pay for the experience, and then potentially the teen actually takes some, like, real life skills away.
Keri: 100%.
Shubh: Like you, you know, learn, know how to use tools. Right?
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Like,
just that simple.
That simple. Here's how you-- what, here's what you do with tools.
Keri: And they'd love the stories.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: They'd be like, "I built this fence. I got to-" Yeah. "... chop down a tree, then we had a fire." Like, "We did all these things." And
Shubh: again, like, uh, Carrie, you know this, but, you know, kids bring home,
like,
art from school, especially when they're younger- Yeah
and you're like, "What am I gonna do with this?"
Keri: I throw it out.
Shubh: But then, uh- ... you know, my, my, I still, my brother was in wood shop. I was in wood shop, and the stuff I made was really [00:45:00] bad. But my brother was very, uh, when he was a kid, was very talented at this stuff, and he made these,
like, like,
wood-stained bookends-
Keri: Cool
Shubh: that my--
are still
in my parents' house. You know, that's, like, 40 years.
Keri: Where's, where's your stuff?
Shubh: Uh, I don't think my stuff was good enough even to bring home, to be honest. There was a reason Shubh was like, "Hey, you know what? You're really good at math." I got a lot of plaques and grades for highest grades in other subjects.
Keri: Okay.
Shubh: Uh, I was a kid who could've benefited from maybe going to this camp.
Keri: Okay.
Shubh: Um, but I just think, like, if they could, you know, if the kids came home from camp, and instead of bringing a bunch of art, they were like, "Hey, uh, Dad, I noticed a couple of the boards on the fence are loose. I'm gonna go take care of those for you."
"I'm
Keri: gonna fix that."
Philippe: Oh my God, that'd be awesome.
Shubh: Happy fucking Father's Day. Yeah, right? You know what I mean? You know what I did, uh, five Father's Days ago? Yeah. I built a, a fence for my family.
Keri: Yeah. I replaced my dad's light switch that was
Shubh: broken- Uh, and my friend Garth always- Yeah ...
Keri: forever, you know?
Shubh: My friend Garth always tells me to, to qualify that when he says I built a fence, because there was a chain link fence, and I [00:46:00] built a fence and attached it to the fence instead of digging posts.
So he's always like, "You leaned a fence on a fence." I'm like, "Why did lean it on?" Well, listen- It's a, it's a little trick.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: It's a little trick out there. You got a chain link fence, you wanna dress it up a little, just box it up. Anywho, uh- ... the point is, if the kids came home from this thing and were like, "Hey, uh, you know, uh, d- you know that area, the wall you had to paint in my room because-" Right.
that poster came off? And it turns out I just took care of that shit for you, Dad." Yeah.
Philippe: That's awesome.
Shubh: This is a great,
like,
a legitimately great idea.
Keri: So do you guys wanna do it?
Philippe: I would love to do this. Yeah.
Shubh: I think you could legitimate- like, I keep saying legitimately. Um, I think that the, the kids angle you guys could totally do.
I absolutely think there's,
like,
a team building corporate-
Keri: Adult version ...
Shubh: angle, adult version. Like, uh, Tech Thursday could just partner with somebody. People would totally do that shit.
Philippe: Yeah. Especially, too, now we need way more people in the trades, you know?
Keri: Yeah, exactly.
Philippe: White collar work is [00:47:00] going down, blue collar work
Shubh: going up.
I mean, I'm not saying I wanna be a welder, but I would like to try welding something one time.
Keri: Right, and when are you gonna get to do that? Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah, no one's gonna be like, "Hey, Shubh, come out and weld this-"
Keri: Yeah "...
Shubh: like,
structure that is going to be holding something important up."
Keri: Right.
Shubh: That's probably not a thing they're gonna ask me to do.
Keri: But if you signed up for the adult camp where they were doing that-
Shubh: And they were just like- ... you'd get to
Keri: do it ...
Shubh: and they were like, "Hey, this is just part of a, a, a, a wrought iron fence we need repaired. You're gonna learn how to weld this back together."
Keri: Right. Great. Awesome.
Philippe: It's great.
Shubh: I know we already gave it a 75.
I'm giving your extension idea a 75, too.
Keri: Okay. So we're gonna build this together. I love it. This could be
Philippe: fun.
Shubh: I think so.
Philippe: I-- Like building someone else's cabin would also be cool.
Keri: Right?
Shubh: Well, that's like Habitat for Humanity. I think you could do
Philippe: that. Yeah. But like, but imagine, so imagine
Shubh: the economics of- But that's all like Habitat for Humanity stuff that like all the materials are ready for you.
Yeah. This is like what if you had to like, you know?
Philippe: I-- There's a world of... The economics is like if I wanna build [00:48:00] a bunkie, I have to buy the wood.
Keri: Right.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: And then I gotta learn how to build it.
Shubh: Yeah.
Philippe: Right? Instead, I buy the wood and then I get a bunch of grown ass men-
Shubh: Yeah ...
Philippe: who have no idea how to do this-
Keri: That are gonna pay
Philippe: you
but are paying me-
Keri: To learn ...
Philippe: to learn. 10
Shubh: out of
Keri: 10.
Shubh: And the truth is, guys, when you get people to do this kind of work at your house, like I said earlier with the landscaping, the level of capability is not materially higher than somebody who's learning to do it from a bunch of like videos.
Keri: I agree.
Shubh: Right.
You're just creating an environment where the tools are... Like 'cause that's one of the biggest problems if you wanna take on a project is like, oh, I'm trying to hand saw everything because I don't have a table saw. Right. Right? Like this is going to take the rest of my life- Yeah ... to do this thing. Yeah.
Right? I've, um, fuck, I really love this idea.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Okay. Uh, we are almost at time, and as, uh, I texted you, Philippe, this morning, I gotta make sure I make it to my round of golf here on time.
Philippe: That's right. Super [00:49:00] important. Instead of golf, you should be, you should be getting your hands dirty. Go hammer some fences.
Shubh: I'm gonna go hammer some golf balls,
you know what I'm saying? Into the water.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Or you could do
Philippe: both. Then I'll have to
Shubh: wade in the water.
Keri: Yeah.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: But this is, uh- Carry- ... the second idea, which is the adult version, is also a 75 salsa.
Shubh: Yeah. You absolutely smashed this. Nice. Uh, now all you've done with those great scores is you've, uh, earned the requirement to come back a second time.
Keri: Okay. After we build it, though.
Shubh: After we build
Keri: it. After we get sued.
Shubh: Yeah.
Keri: You know?
Shubh: Yeah. I, I, I gotta be honest, I don't wanna participate in the business part of this. I will definitely help.
Keri: But you'll come to the camp.
Shubh: I will definitely tell everybody I know about it, though.
Keri: Okay.
Shubh: Yeah. All right. So I'm fully on board in that regard.
Okay. I just, I, I just don't want any of the liability.
Keri: Yeah. We're gonna need an insurance broker and a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. Phil's got a great- No, yeah ... commercial
Shubh: insurance guy. I got a good lawyer. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah. We got
you covered.
Keri: Yeah.
Philippe: Yeah, we could do this.
Keri: Yeah. Awesome.
Shubh: Yeah. The [00:50:00] great thing too, is insur- In fact,
Philippe: my lawyer could use this camp.
Shubh: Yeah. I was gonna say, the, I was gonna... The great thing is insurance brokers and lawyers are generally pretty well to do. Right. So their kids would probably also- Right.
Philippe: Yeah. Yeah.
And
Shubh: they, they've
Keri: probably got cabins with jobs.
Philippe: That's right. He's got a, that guy's never had a hard day's work in his life, you know?
Keri: Right. Like, I feel like we've got access to some people.
Shubh: Yeah. Yeah. Um, Carrie, I can't tell you how much I appreciate this. Um, I know you knew Phil. Like I said, when we don't know people, it doesn't always go this perfectly. Okay. So thank you.
Keri: Thank
Shubh: you. Um, also, um- One time we
Philippe: had a s- a scammer on. You gotta stop kissing.
I have to cut it out every fucking time.
Shubh: Um, you smash this. Congratulations on everything that's going on with Blue Marvel. We'll, uh, uh, we'll all be looking for updates over- Yeah ... the coming, um, months- Coming weeks, yeah ... about how it's going- Yeah ... over there.
Keri: You bet.
Shubh: Um, [00:51:00] yeah. I'm just really super happy to get connected.
I was saying to somebody last night, the best networking thing I've ever done in my life is this idiotic podsc- podcast.
Keri: I love this podcast. I think it's hilarious.
Philippe: Yeah.
Shubh: That's very kind of you to say. Thanks for coming in.
Keri: Yeah, I love
Shubh: it. Somebody yesterday was like, "Hey, I was listening to your podcast.
Philippe's very funny." And it wasn't my wife. And I was just like, I was like, "Thank you. Thank you for at least acknowledging it's my podcast."
Philippe: That's
Keri: right. Oh,
Shubh: man. Ah, it's all fine. He's fine. He's great. You know, it's great. It's, it's totally fine. It's great. Uh, he's great. It's so fun. Uh, he's so good. Uh, no.
But thank you so much. You're welcome. Uh, yeah, this was honestly awesome. And you know what, people? Go get your hands dirty.
Philippe: Yeah. Go get your hands dirty.
Shubh: Go get your hands dirty. Go
Philippe: get your hands dirty. We should actually build a... Like, uh, uh, how hard would it be?
Shubh: Can we just call this thing Dirty Hands?
Keri: Dirty Hands.
Shubh: Uh-
Keri: Well.
Shubh: Yeah. Okay, maybe. I like Bootstrap better actually, in retrospect. Yeah. Bootstrap with no E, right?
Keri: Yeah. There you go.
Shubh: Right on.
Philippe: Where would the E be?
Shubh: It... bootstrapped. [00:52:00]
Philippe: Oh, there. Okay. Great. Got
Shubh: it. Oh, he's charming as hell. Just not great with spelling though. Uh, thank you very much again.
Thank you. And, uh, that's a wrap.
Philippe: It's a wrap.
Keri: Thanks, guys.
Philippe: That was awesome.
Keri: Thank you.
This is a presentation of Indian Dad Media in association with
This is a Thursday Media production.